Every time this comes up we say we handicap BOATS, not PEOPLE. Now back in the day we might have suggested a winning boat lend out some crew to the back of the fleet and get their speed up a bit.
Joe Della Barba Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:04 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 Whenever race organizers fiddle with well established handicaps to even things out or to produce artificial winners with an honest intent to spread the winning around, trouble can often result...the base handicaps are on the designs as I understand things and those handicaps are performance based, with adjustments for type of drive systems and largest head sail but performance also includes crew work as well as sail inventory and other gear designed for better performance...when a design recieves a local are handicap based on results obtained with an experienced racing crew on a race outfitted design it will be difficult or impossible for less experienced crew to win with a lesser equipped boat of the same design. IMHO the only acceptable approach is to equip your boat and crew to achieve better results: that takes money and more practice time. That is the way it is in most sports if you want to be a winner. Unfortunately sail boats and racing gear are very expensive, even for youth sailors in Optis or Lasers for example and the cost goes up as as a function of boat size. Dwight Veinot Alianna C&C 35 MKII Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Hoyt, Mike <mike.h...@impgroup.com<mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>> wrote: Jim The other downside to this system is when a less competitive boat invites along a very experienced sailor for a single race or a very key race near the end of the series. A very good sailor will in fact up the competitiveness of the boat and upset that system. In years past for club races we used to adjust our club handicaps by 6 or 12 sec / mile for the less experienced sailors and for some lesser prepared boats that never win by 30+. Did not seem to make much of a difference until one of the adjusted boats brought along seasoned racers for a more major event such as a club championship. Mike ________________________________ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Jim Reinardy Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 3:09 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 Our club is an informal racing group with some social events thrown in. We don't have a clubhouse and use volunteer racers as committee boats. We have a wide variety of boats in our fleet with PHRF's from 50 to 250 most years. This makes scoring a real challenge. For many years, we have used a golf style handicap system. The system and the rationale behind it are described in some detail on page 6 of the document below. http://mastracing.org/documents/Manual.pdf In a nutshell, the 1st three boats lose handicap points after each race, the 4th place boat stays the same and boats below that gain handicap points. It has proven to have a definite impact on the competition toward the end of the year, with most divisions staying competitive to the end. Every year, we discuss it and nobody advocates getting rid of the system. The debate has been whether to reset the handicaps each season. That is how we do it now, though there is a small group that would like to see every boat start the next season where they ended the previous one. The only downside to it that I see is that it provides some disincentive to win early. Several years ago we had a great start to the season, winning the first 5 races of the season. With our system, that dropped our PHRF rating 56 points during that period. That eventually caught up with us and we did not win another race until very late in the season. We wound up winning the division, but it was much closer than it might have been with that kind of start in another system. Regards, Jim Reinardy C&C 30-2 "Firewater" Milwaukee, WI From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Michael Brown Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 10:40 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 It will be good to get some real life feedback. I see the link for golf style handicaps, and the idea of a recreational PHRF adjustment has been discussed at NYC. Does it help? What are other clubs doing and what works? While the NYC has OK turn out for the weeknight racing I see a decline in attendance in most of the PHRF regattas, particularly in the racer/cruiser boats. The peak weekday race night attendance was 83 boats on a Wednesday, about 1/3 do not race PHRF so we have level divisions for One Designs. There are enough Sharks racing now that they have their own course and committee boat, and usually run two races a night. Everyone says "what is the problem", but I see most clubs having declining attendance and I would like to get feedback as to what the reasons are. Be proactive! The C&C Owners Regatta was cancelled this year, only about 14 boats registered. I have to think there are still a lot more race ( or cruise ) capable boats around that could come out but are not, and it would help to find out why. Maybe something that can be fixed. Might be time to start a thread - PHRF challenges - providing a racing venue for older racer / cruisers I say this because at NYC we are looking at hosting six or more regattas next year, including the Shark Worlds and 2.4 Meter Worlds. So far all of the regattas are for One Design boats, and there may be as many as 90 2.4s and 50+ Sharks. At this moment in the planning stage there is no confirmed race for any PHRF boats. With the rumor that the format for the 2014 YYC Levels will be 100% One Design of fleets of 20 or more ( just a rumor ), one of the last big PHRF attended regattas may be going away. It also does lend an opportunity for NYC to hold a PHRF regatta on the YYC Levels weekend ( end of July ). What are racers looking for? The standard twice around windward leeward is easy, should triangular, short course or pursuit races also be offered? Is a wider PHRF range something that people look at that affects their decision to attend? Should the offering have a minimal registration fee and include simple flags, or do people want a live band, buffet, skipper's bag, regalia for the crew ... I have to figure this is the right group to ask. Thanks, Michael Brown Windburn C&C 30-1 _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>
_______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
