It will be good to get some real life feedback. I see the link for golf style handicaps, and the idea of a recreational PHRF adjustment has been discussed at NYC. Does it help? What are other clubs doing and what works?
While the NYC has OK turn out for the weeknight racing I see a decline in attendance in most of the PHRF regattas, particularly in the racer/cruiser boats. The peak weekday race night attendance was 83 boats on a Wednesday, about 1/3 do not race PHRF so we have level divisions for One Designs. There are enough Sharks racing now that they have their own course and committee boat, and usually run two races a night. Everyone says "what is the problem", but I see most clubs having declining attendance and I would like to get feedback as to what the reasons are. Be proactive! The C&C Owners Regatta was cancelled this year, only about 14 boats registered. I have to think there are still a lot more race ( or cruise ) capable boats around that could come out but are not, and it would help to find out why. Maybe something that can be fixed. Might be time to start a thread - PHRF challenges - providing a racing venue for older racer / cruisers I say this because at NYC we are looking at hosting six or more regattas next year, including the Shark Worlds and 2.4 Meter Worlds. So far all of the regattas are for One Design boats, and there may be as many as 90 2.4s and 50+ Sharks. At this moment in the planning stage there is no confirmed race for any PHRF boats. With the rumor that the format for the 2014 YYC Levels will be 100% One Design of fleets of 20 or more ( just a rumor ), one of the last big PHRF attended regattas may be going away. It also does lend an opportunity for NYC to hold a PHRF regatta on the YYC Levels weekend ( end of July ). What are racers looking for? The standard twice around windward leeward is easy, should triangular, short course or pursuit races also be offered? Is a wider PHRF range something that people look at that affects their decision to attend? Should the offering have a minimal registration fee and include simple flags, or do people want a live band, buffet, skipper's bag, regalia for the crew ... I have to figure this is the right group to ask. Thanks, Michael Brown Windburn C&C 30-1 Message: 3 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 10:06:12 -0400 From: Ken Heaton <kenhea...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 Message-ID: <caabfp6qtqtnc7on7u4p7pnhcwyuuc5ng1i5ffvlzwp6spjz...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What Mike has mentioned they are doing in Lunenburg is similar to the following from US Sailing's webpage here: http://offshore.ussailing.org/PHRF/Golf_Handicaps.htm Golf Handicaps by John Collins PHRF obviously works best when there is a small handicap range in each class. That is fine if you have many boats. If, however, you have few boats with sailors of wide ranging abilities and boats with a wide range of speeds, the racing will be dominated by one or two boats. This leads to unhappiness. A possible remedy, at the local club level, is to institute golf handicapping. PHRF golf handicapping works just the way that golf handicapping works. The PHRF handicap is adjusted after each race, or regatta, based on the race performance. This should only be attempted in small fleets. It should not be used for large regattas or for large fleets sailing in several areas. The way it works is to pick a reference boat, say the boat that corrected out 40 percent of the way down the fleet. Then figure out the seconds per mile that the other boats either beat or lost to this boat. Take a small fraction of this delta, say 10 percent, and lower the faster boat's handicaps by this amount and raise the slower boats. By taking a small percentage you do not make radical changes to a boat's handicap. If the boat corrected significantly faster or slower than the reference boat, say by 50 seconds per mile, do nothing with these boats. There has to be a reason for this large delta like luck, or bad luck. You don't want to contaminate your adjustments with such races. The golf handicap scheme is very simple to apply, at the local level. It can help a small fleet Over time it will tend to even things out. It will still allow the good guy to win overall. On 6 November 2013 17:06, Hoyt, Mike <mike.h...@impgroup.com> wrote: > Michael > > Lunenburg yacht club here in Nova scotia has a system in place for their > club racing. It is described on their Web page I believe. > > Basically they adjust handicaps throughout the season based on results. I > believe they use a formula > > Re the other. All phrf base handicaps are assumed to be for boats in > optimal racing condition. In Nova Scotia we have added a recreational > adjustment of +6 that has had mixed results. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: CnC-List on behalf of Michael Brown > Sent: Wed 11/6/2013 3:29 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 > > Hi Mike, > > those are pretty accurate comments, I would not take them as a rant. > > In the CS30 fleet I see a mix of "traditional" and "upgraded" boats. I > take > the traditional boats as having the original rigging, dacron sails and > standard > double braid lines. The upgraded boats are sporting new technology sails, > such as tape drive or string, new deck layouts, spectra type lines and > things > like carbon fiber spin poles. My comment, poorly explained, was that the > traditional boats even in good conditions will find a 147 NFS rating > "aggressive". Maybe not the best word for it. I was trying to in a friendly > way to caution a new owner that work ( upgrades ) may be required to > be competitive in a CS30 fleet. > > The CS30s I race against, Synchronicity - S'fida - Uncorked, in things > like > the LOSHRS look like they have done well with the upgrades. The CS30 > design seems to be pretty good and responds well to the new go fast stuff. > These are the boats that are sailing to a 147 NFS rating. > > Your other comment about the "fudge factor" is an interesting discussion. > I am the PHRF handicapper at The National Yacht Club in Toronto. We invite > PHRF boats from other clubs to join us, so have about 100 boats in PHRF > that > could compete in weeknight racing. So far there is no mechanism defined > well > in PHRF to address the "traditional" vs "upgraded" split. It would be nice > to > offer a modified rating to someone that mainly cruises and may not justify > the cost of upgrading their sail plan, but otherwise has a boat in good > condition and well crewed. > > Michael Brown > Windburn > C&C 30-1 > > > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:39:44 -0400 > From: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com> > To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 > Message-ID: > <4cdebb6b0f16c541ba8f985b72705d541764f...@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > "The CS30s that are in good condition and > raced well can sail to a 147 rating." > > Michael > > PHRF handicaps are set to measure the boats that are sailed and prepped > well". They are not set for boats that are not in good condition, are > not prepped well and not sailed well. Those boats are expeceted to and > deserve to lose unless club handicaps have some sort of fidge factor in > place for new sailors etc ... > > Sorry for the rant but your description of a boat that can win with > aggresive rating of 147 is exactly what handicapping is supposed to be > all about. Handicap boat model not individual yacht or crew. > > Mike > > ________________________________ > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Brown > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:41 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30 > > > > I have an old PHRF NE rating for the CS 30 @ 150, compared to the C&C > 30 > > rating of 174, which gives you some idea of comparative. > > PHRF-LO for 2013: > > CS30 standard keel : 147 FS, 168 NFS > CS30 shoal draft : 153 FS, 174 NFS > CS30 wing keel : 153 FS, 174 NFS > > I have raced a C&C 30-1 against the CS30, both in the typical 1 mile > legs > windward leeward venue and on long distance races. The 147 FS rating is > pretty aggressive for most CS30s The CS30s that are in good condition > and > raced well can sail to a 147 rating. > > Michael Brown > Windburn > C&C 30-1
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