Most of the PHRF regions specifically state that the ratings are based on an
optimized boat racing with the best sails and an experienced crew. There are a
number of clubs which add other items into the mix, but that is a local
decision. Or small local group has experienced with a number of schemes (I am
the rating guy and am usually suggesting this stuff) and it usually doesn't
make many people happy, and generally confuses the situation - which sliding
ratings will do.
We tried time on time scoring, and because some of our racers couldn't figure
out how they had done in their head, was deemed too complex..... we tried
rating adjustments for equipment - small sails - extra weight (cruising gear,
biminis, dodgers, outboards, etc...) and that became more than people wanted to
put up with (and didn't add new folks to the fleet).
So, we are back to the usual - PHRF with adjustments for non-spinnaker and
cruising spinnakers. It seems to be working.
Gary
St. Michaels MD
----- Original Message -----
From: dwight veinot
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30
Whenever race organizers fiddle with well established handicaps to even
things out or to produce artificial winners with an honest intent to spread the
winning around, trouble can often result...the base handicaps are on the
designs as I understand things and those handicaps are performance based, with
adjustments for type of drive systems and largest head sail but performance
also includes crew work as well as sail inventory and other gear designed for
better performance...when a design recieves a local are handicap based on
results obtained with an experienced racing crew on a race outfitted design it
will be difficult or impossible for less experienced crew to win with a lesser
equipped boat of the same design. IMHO the only acceptable approach is to
equip your boat and crew to achieve better results: that takes money and more
practice time. That is the way it is in most sports if you want to be a
winner. Unfortunately sail boats and racing gear are very expensive, even for
youth sailors in Optis or Lasers for example and the cost goes up as as a
function of boat size.
Dwight Veinot
Alianna
C&C 35 MKII
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Hoyt, Mike <mike.h...@impgroup.com> wrote:
Jim
The other downside to this system is when a less competitive boat invites
along a very experienced sailor for a single race or a very key race near the
end of the series. A very good sailor will in fact up the competitiveness of
the boat and upset that system.
In years past for club races we used to adjust our club handicaps by 6 or
12 sec / mile for the less experienced sailors and for some lesser prepared
boats that never win by 30+. Did not seem to make much of a difference until
one of the adjusted boats brought along seasoned racers for a more major event
such as a club championship.
Mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Reinardy
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 3:09 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30
Our club is an informal racing group with some social events thrown in. We
don’t have a clubhouse and use volunteer racers as committee boats. We have a
wide variety of boats in our fleet with PHRF’s from 50 to 250 most years. This
makes scoring a real challenge. For many years, we have used a golf style
handicap system. The system and the rationale behind it are described in some
detail on page 6 of the document below.
http://mastracing.org/documents/Manual.pdf
In a nutshell, the 1st three boats lose handicap points after each race,
the 4th place boat stays the same and boats below that gain handicap points.
It has proven to have a definite impact on the competition toward the end of
the year, with most divisions staying competitive to the end. Every year, we
discuss it and nobody advocates getting rid of the system. The debate has been
whether to reset the handicaps each season. That is how we do it now, though
there is a small group that would like to see every boat start the next season
where they ended the previous one.
The only downside to it that I see is that it provides some disincentive to
win early. Several years ago we had a great start to the season, winning the
first 5 races of the season. With our system, that dropped our PHRF rating 56
points during that period. That eventually caught up with us and we did not win
another race until very late in the season. We wound up winning the division,
but it was much closer than it might have been with that kind of start in
another system.
Regards,
Jim Reinardy
C&C 30-2 “Firewater”
Milwaukee, WI
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Brown
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 10:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CS 30 PHRF rating - Was: New boat - CS30
It will be good to get some real life feedback.
I see the link for golf style handicaps, and the idea of a recreational
PHRF adjustment
has been discussed at NYC. Does it help? What are other clubs doing and
what works?
While the NYC has OK turn out for the weeknight racing I see a decline in
attendance
in most of the PHRF regattas, particularly in the racer/cruiser boats. The
peak weekday
race night attendance was 83 boats on a Wednesday, about 1/3 do not race
PHRF so
we have level divisions for One Designs. There are enough Sharks racing now
that they
have their own course and committee boat, and usually run two races a night.
Everyone says "what is the problem", but I see most clubs having declining
attendance
and I would like to get feedback as to what the reasons are. Be proactive!
The C&C Owners Regatta was cancelled this year, only about 14 boats
registered. I have
to think there are still a lot more race ( or cruise ) capable boats around
that could come
out but are not, and it would help to find out why. Maybe something that
can be fixed.
Might be time to start a thread -
PHRF challenges - providing a racing venue for older racer / cruisers
I say this because at NYC we are looking at hosting six or more regattas
next year,
including the Shark Worlds and 2.4 Meter Worlds. So far all of the regattas
are
for One Design boats, and there may be as many as 90 2.4s and 50+ Sharks. At
this moment in the planning stage there is no confirmed race for any PHRF
boats.
With the rumor that the format for the 2014 YYC Levels will be 100% One
Design
of fleets of 20 or more ( just a rumor ), one of the last big PHRF attended
regattas
may be going away. It also does lend an opportunity for NYC to hold a PHRF
regatta
on the YYC Levels weekend ( end of July ).
What are racers looking for? The standard twice around windward leeward
is easy,
should triangular, short course or pursuit races also be offered? Is a
wider PHRF
range something that people look at that affects their decision to attend?
Should
the offering have a minimal registration fee and include simple flags, or
do people
want a live band, buffet, skipper's bag, regalia for the crew ...
I have to figure this is the right group to ask.
Thanks,
Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1
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