Dennis,

We do a couple of pursuit races too – both with courses that are set well in
advance so the distances are known.  I am not sure I understand your comment
about choosing a maximum handicap.  We find out ahead of the race who plans
to participate and then work the time differences starting with the slowest
(highest PHRF) boat.  Each participant is then given their starting time. Of
course once the course is set you cannot “shorten” course or change marks!

 

To introduce more “fun” into one of these races that has been held every
year since goodness knows when, we allow the boats to use their engine for a
total of 5 minutes at any point in the race – obviously on an honor system.

 

Jonathan

Indigo 35-3 -  

 

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From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C.
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Gary - Pursuit racing

 

Mike,

 

We do pursuits in my area also. We use set courses so the distance is known.
You have to choose a maximum handicap and go from there.

 

Go to Corinthians.org click on the "sailing instructions" link.  Then look
at the staggered start documents. 

 

Dennis C.


Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 14, 2012, at 7:15 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com> wrote:

Gary

 

How do you determine start times for each boat in your pursuit races?  We
have tried a couple of methods and all seem a bit problematic but tremendous
fun.  Our sailors love pursuit format but it is a bit of work beforeheand
for the Race Committee

 

Mike

 


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From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Nylander
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

For our JAM races we have moved to Pursuit racing. This is a good way to
decrease anxiety on the line. 

 

We tried adjustments for cruising equipment (dodgers, biminis, BBQ, etc.)
but it didn't seem to attract a bunch of newbies. Maybe it is just that we
have a limited supply of local boats....

 

Would be interested in your list, though.

 

Gary Nylander

gnylan...@atlanticbb.net

 

Thanks.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Martin <mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com>  DeYoung 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:40 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

 

The Seattle Yacht Club Cruiser/Racer class gives rating credits for cruising
bottoms, old sails, roller furling, windless/anchor on bow etc.

The C/R class was created to increase participation.  Non competitive
sailors and boats will often show up if the class is relaxed about the
starting tactics (less shouting and close quarters) and promotes courtesy in
crossing situations.  SYC is flexible on shorting the course in very light
air and we take ½ way times in case the wind shuts off entirely.

Some of the participants take full advantage of the cruising credits.  I may
have a list of what has been offered is any C&C listers are thinking of a
similar “get out the boat” effort.  Let me know if the info is wanted.

In recent years there have been 4 or 5 boats (incl Calypso) that are sailed
with intent to be C/R class competitive with limited use of the cruiser
rating discounts.  Owners new to racing or whose boats were never conceived
as a race boat can add more than a dozen seconds to the handicap to help
move up the score card.  Most years there have been 12 to 15 boats total in
the C/R class.

Martin


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From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

OK - I was afraid you meant "Flaking, peeling, ignored and cratered because
I dont care".



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size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin
DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:36 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Ablative paint with small blisters, keel not faired in the last 2 decades,
some slime present from lack of cleaning.

Or, those little red bumps that itch after sitting in salt water day after
day on a long cruise.

Martin


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From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:21 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Martin

What is a cruising bottom?



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From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin
DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

>> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some
sea…<<<

PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall rig) at
165.  The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs).  The Baba is
cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and fun with a
dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22’ spinnaker pole.  Calypso is
set up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller furler and
spin sock) and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs).

The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in
light air and flat water.  Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully
crewed Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind.

In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15
minute earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark (Foulweather
Bluff buoy +- 12 mile leg).  As we headed upwind the Soveral was low and
slow as the crew could not keep the boat flat, the Baba was having trouble
going to weather and difficulty in completing a tack (the lee shore was
looming).  Calypso finally got conditions that favor a 1969/70 design that
enjoys a good blow.  We used a #3 and 1 reef in the main, put the boat’s
shoulder to the seas and enjoyed the ride.  No crew had to ride the rail as
the 9,500lb keel and big rudder was finally an asset.

My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad range
of PNW conditions is they did OK.  Some local competitors complain about the
Baba’s rating.  Much of the PNW racing is done in light air and with a 165
rated tall rig; 22’ spin pole boat he does well.  However I would not trade
him for the very poor performance upwind in heavy conditions.  The Soveral
meets the PHRF premise of a boat, sails, and crew being at its best in order
to perform to its rating.  Often the Soveral finishes a series in the top 3
of its class.

Calypso is far from “being at its best” (old sails, cruising bottom,
cruising gear) and its crew is put together with a mix of newbies, causal
sailors, and a few of us that have throttled back after decades of “grand
prix” level competition.  We the co-owners are satisfied with the
performance vs. cost ratio.  If I needed to return to the very competitive
end of the fleet a different boat would be more cost effective than bringing
Calypso back to full race condition.

Martin

Calypso

1970 C&C 43

Seattle


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From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:30 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some sea,
and he would take it all back on the downwind spin run.  One way the 34R
could beat the Hobie 33 was to have an upwind finish which happened once in
St Margaret's Bay, I recall.

Bob Abbott 
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84 
Halifax N.S.

On 2012/11/12 10:07 PM, dwight veinot wrote:

The Frers 33 displacement is less than your 35 MKIII, the sail area to
displacement ratio is quite a bit larger and LWL is only 1.5 feet less than
your 35…we had similar experience racing against a Hobie 33 (PHRF 94) on a
C&C 34R (PHRF 84)

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


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