Dennis, We do a couple of pursuit races too both with courses that are set well in advance so the distances are known. I am not sure I understand your comment about choosing a maximum handicap. We find out ahead of the race who plans to participate and then work the time differences starting with the slowest (highest PHRF) boat. Each participant is then given their starting time. Of course once the course is set you cannot shorten course or change marks!
To introduce more fun into one of these races that has been held every year since goodness knows when, we allow the boats to use their engine for a total of 5 minutes at any point in the race obviously on an honor system. Jonathan Indigo 35-3 - _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:45 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Gary - Pursuit racing Mike, We do pursuits in my area also. We use set courses so the distance is known. You have to choose a maximum handicap and go from there. Go to Corinthians.org click on the "sailing instructions" link. Then look at the staggered start documents. Dennis C. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 14, 2012, at 7:15 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com> wrote: Gary How do you determine start times for each boat in your pursuit races? We have tried a couple of methods and all seem a bit problematic but tremendous fun. Our sailors love pursuit format but it is a bit of work beforeheand for the Race Committee Mike _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Nylander Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:49 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating For our JAM races we have moved to Pursuit racing. This is a good way to decrease anxiety on the line. We tried adjustments for cruising equipment (dodgers, biminis, BBQ, etc.) but it didn't seem to attract a bunch of newbies. Maybe it is just that we have a limited supply of local boats.... Would be interested in your list, though. Gary Nylander gnylan...@atlanticbb.net Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin <mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com> DeYoung To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating The Seattle Yacht Club Cruiser/Racer class gives rating credits for cruising bottoms, old sails, roller furling, windless/anchor on bow etc. The C/R class was created to increase participation. Non competitive sailors and boats will often show up if the class is relaxed about the starting tactics (less shouting and close quarters) and promotes courtesy in crossing situations. SYC is flexible on shorting the course in very light air and we take ½ way times in case the wind shuts off entirely. Some of the participants take full advantage of the cruising credits. I may have a list of what has been offered is any C&C listers are thinking of a similar get out the boat effort. Let me know if the info is wanted. In recent years there have been 4 or 5 boats (incl Calypso) that are sailed with intent to be C/R class competitive with limited use of the cruiser rating discounts. Owners new to racing or whose boats were never conceived as a race boat can add more than a dozen seconds to the handicap to help move up the score card. Most years there have been 12 to 15 boats total in the C/R class. Martin _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:25 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating OK - I was afraid you meant "Flaking, peeling, ignored and cratered because I dont care". _____ size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Ablative paint with small blisters, keel not faired in the last 2 decades, some slime present from lack of cleaning. Or, those little red bumps that itch after sitting in salt water day after day on a long cruise. Martin _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:21 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Martin What is a cruising bottom? _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:11 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating >> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some sea <<< PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall rig) at 165. The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs). The Baba is cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and fun with a dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22 spinnaker pole. Calypso is set up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller furler and spin sock) and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs). The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in light air and flat water. Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully crewed Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind. In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15 minute earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark (Foulweather Bluff buoy +- 12 mile leg). As we headed upwind the Soveral was low and slow as the crew could not keep the boat flat, the Baba was having trouble going to weather and difficulty in completing a tack (the lee shore was looming). Calypso finally got conditions that favor a 1969/70 design that enjoys a good blow. We used a #3 and 1 reef in the main, put the boats shoulder to the seas and enjoyed the ride. No crew had to ride the rail as the 9,500lb keel and big rudder was finally an asset. My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad range of PNW conditions is they did OK. Some local competitors complain about the Babas rating. Much of the PNW racing is done in light air and with a 165 rated tall rig; 22 spin pole boat he does well. However I would not trade him for the very poor performance upwind in heavy conditions. The Soveral meets the PHRF premise of a boat, sails, and crew being at its best in order to perform to its rating. Often the Soveral finishes a series in the top 3 of its class. Calypso is far from being at its best (old sails, cruising bottom, cruising gear) and its crew is put together with a mix of newbies, causal sailors, and a few of us that have throttled back after decades of grand prix level competition. We the co-owners are satisfied with the performance vs. cost ratio. If I needed to return to the very competitive end of the fleet a different boat would be more cost effective than bringing Calypso back to full race condition. Martin Calypso 1970 C&C 43 Seattle _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:30 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some sea, and he would take it all back on the downwind spin run. One way the 34R could beat the Hobie 33 was to have an upwind finish which happened once in St Margaret's Bay, I recall. Bob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - 84 Halifax N.S. On 2012/11/12 10:07 PM, dwight veinot wrote: The Frers 33 displacement is less than your 35 MKIII, the sail area to displacement ratio is quite a bit larger and LWL is only 1.5 feet less than your 35 we had similar experience racing against a Hobie 33 (PHRF 94) on a C&C 34R (PHRF 84) Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _____ _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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