That's a good point for the guy considering the 37+ for racing.he will need more regular and good crew to race effectively.not just more water.but Rick, I think your boat is probably rated fairly at 120 and I am sure you and your crew will sail better as time goes on and I bet you could find ways to gain a lot more than 3 seconds a mile...upwind legs are the most important.just think if the crew sailing that 35 MKII would have been skilled with upwind sailing on the boat.like they probably may not have known that footing off a few degrees would have benefitted them over the length of the leg and they probably tried to point with your 38 which from your accounts does very well sailing closer to the wind.nice boat your 38.but some day they may learn and then what???argue about handicaps and apply for change.that is the one system that is ever changing. Our local race committees even tried to change it from one series to another during a season based on performance during the last previous series.to keep poorly sailed boats interested.no incentive to improve in that system and I did not like it.I don't race anymore here but I believe that approach no longer exists
Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: November 12, 2012 2:15 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating 12 seconds?! I should have applied for a new PHRF certificate a LONG time ago. I thought it was only +3, and I can screw up 3 seconds a mile in a heartbeat - particularly now that I only do charity races and use a pickup crew. Now where did I put my PHRF rating folder... Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of jtsails Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:29 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Rick, I got the 129 rating based on a +12 adjustment for the two blade fixed prop. I haven't (yet) received an adjustment for the roller furler (+3). There is also an adjustment available for using a 135% headsail as your largest(111% to 135% is +3), but I don't think you will get anything for a 140%(136% to 155% is no adjustment). I also don't see any adjustment for undersized spinnakers, only penalties for oversized. James SV Delaney C&C 38 MkII Oriental, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Brass <mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Dwight; The NC PHRF base rating is 117 for the 38 Mk1 or Mk2, and 126 for the 35 Mk2. 9 seconds difference is consistent with the spread in your area. I presume you have more wind than we do. When I was racing regularly, my rating was 120 because of the keel mod. I raced against a 35 Mk2 that was rated at 126 and we were fairly evenly matched. I was faster upwind, and could outpoint him by 3 or 4 degrees, and he was faster downwind. Race outcome was largely a matter of the time difference to the upwind mark. Pointing depends on the wind - the higher the apparent wind, the better I can point. In typical winds (10 to 15 apparent around here; say 8 to 10 true.) I can point to 28 or 29 apparent. Above 28 I am pinched and lose speed. The boat is fastest, according to the GPS which shows the velocity towards the mark and not true VMG, when footed off slightly to about 30 apparent. Again, that seems to be pretty consistent with your experience. I just looked at the current NC-PHRF information on line, and I see that The Edge (the 35 Mk2) is now rated at 129, possibly because of the above deck furler. I also see that Delaney, a 38 in Oriental that belongs to another of the listers, is rated at 129 as well. Perhaps I should go back and get a new PHRF rating? I never did apply for an adjustment for the fixed 2 blade prop, and now I have a 140% roller furling genoa that tacks 18" above the deck, a non-adjustable baby stay, a radically undersized cruising A-sail for a spinnaker, and a radar arch and dinghy davits on the stern. I'm pretty sure all that would justify a 126 rating. I wonder how Delaney got to 129? Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:58 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Rick You say "I can still point up to under 30 degrees apparent," My 35 MKII will sail at 30 degrees to apparent wind but I have found that my VMG (wind) is highest when I sail at about 33 degrees to apparent. I don't have the numbers for all of my headsails because I have only been carrying my furling 135 since I installed my Raymarine ST60 system which gave me the ability to display VMG(wind) on the fly. I would expect that I may get different results with different sized headsails and different wind and or sea conditions; like with my racing 150 in say 10-12 apparent and flat seas VMG (wind) may be best at 30 apparent or below. By New England PHRF my 35 MKII has a base rating of 120, slightly slower than your 38MKI (111 by New England numbers) but you race it at 120. My question to you is: do you find pointing at under 30 degrees to apparent to result in your best VMG to weather under all conditions? Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _____ _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5390 - Release Date: 11/12/12
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