I just wanted to mention that pull request was one of the several notes I've 
made, but looks like it's being irritating enough people that it completely 
took over this thread. The problem itself is not a JIRA or that sending patches 
is too hard (even though I think it's too much incidental complexity :) problem 
is that in order to fix a bug I've encountered, I have to go through a lot of 
hoops and that's too much for the first sip. Maybe less for people doing Java 
based programs as I still have dark memories from amount of configuring I have 
to do to actually get things running, but it definitely is for people that or 
from other communities and if clojure is not ready to accept people from 
different backgrounds what is the point of speaking at jsconf
http://blip.tv/jsconf/jsconf2012-david-nolen-6141386 ?

Now I think a lot of points have being completely missed here, pull requests is 
just a tip of the iceberg, world has moved on from
sending patches to building great tooling like https://travis-ci.org/ 
integration testing that verifies code quality of an each checking and even 
those pull requests submitted, which saves a lot of time for both submitter and 
maintainer that otherwise would have to
download patch, apply and run tests. Of course if you're Rich Hickey you may 
find bugs in patches without doing all that, but if me sloppy contributor can 
detect issues before patch reaches Rich would save his time of looking at it. 
Not to say that I'm sure that even Rich could miss something and having tooling 
that makes sure nothing breaks is useful. It's actually very surprising to me 
that project of this size does not has integration testing in place. 

Now it's not clear which browsers clojurescript is going to work but regardless 
of claims it would be great to have facts. So my next step was to setup 
integration tests with http://ci.testling.com/ that is like travis.ci but runs 
your tests in all possible browsers & believe there are tons of bugs when it 
comes to cross-browser compatibility.

So it's not just that some people keep insisting on using pull requests it's a 
lot more and maybe it's time for this community to revisit some decisions. It's 
just natural process of grows.

Regards
--
Irakli Gozalishvili
Web: http://www.jeditoolkit.com/


On Sunday, 2013-01-20 at 09:58 , Anthony Grimes wrote:

> 
> 
> On Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:33:56 AM UTC-6, Fogus wrote:
> >  
> > > To make matters worse, Clojure/core consistently avoids discussing these 
> > > issues in public
> > 
> > I would guess because their position hasn't changed since the last time.  
> > This is only speculation.  A page like what Anthony proposes could help, 
> > but it wouldn't satisfy everyone.  Stuart Sierra wrote up something 
> > related, but it doesn't cover everything discussed here 
> > http://clojure.com/blog/2012/02/17/clojure-governance.html
> 
> Well, no, if the answer remains the same it probably won't satisfy everyone, 
> but at least they'll have an easy way to learn why. 
> 
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