I should add that Clojure on the JVM compiles to byte code on the fly and it makes it as dynamic as the python implementation. It has nothing to do with Java itself aside from Clojure's internal implementation.
You can write Clojure code never referencing Java directly in your code. Where the java ecosystem hits you is in management of dependencies, as soon as you use a Clojure written library it may wrap several java libs which in turn reference other java libs... Managing this by hand is tedious and error prone. Over time, you will hit the same issue in the python implementation as Clojure based libraries are being develop and wrap python based libs. Luc P. > Then its the same with the python implementation, read my other post :) > > Having lein-py would hide some of these implementation details. > > > > A lot of these implementation details bleed out into everyday language use, > > let alone using platform libraries. I agree with Sean on that. > > > > On Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:29:34 PM UTC+2, Luc wrote: > > > > > > Clojure is Clojure, Java and how much of the core of the is written in it > > > is an implementation detail. > > > > > > No build tool = pain in the .... In large projects. > > > > > > Luc P. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, you're right. Clojure itself is just a functional Lisp. > > > > > > > > But, Clojure is at least 2 languages: Lisp & Java. Lisp by itself isn't > > > > that complicated but adding Java makes it much harder. > > > > > > > > ClojurePY is Lisp and Python. Python has a lower barrier to entry than > > > Java. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Timothy Baldridge > > > > <tbald...@gmail.com<javascript:>>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Clojure is incredibly complicated. > > > > > > > > > > I'd be careful about going that far. Clojure itself is not really > > > > > that > > > > > complicated. I think it's more the restrictions the JVM puts on it. > > > > > As > > > an > > > > > example, see RestFn.java, AFn.java, etc. Since the python VM supports > > > > > first-class functions all that complexity isn't needed. > > > > > > > > > > So I agree with it having a lower barrier of entry (which is one of > > > the > > > > > reasons I wrote it), but I think that's more the fault of the JVM > > > > > than > > > > > Clojure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, that's why I use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Timothy > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > clo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > > > > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient > > > with > > > > > your first post. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > clo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > > > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > > > your first post. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > > -- > > > Softaddicts<lprefo...@softaddicts.ca <javascript:>> sent by ibisMail from > > > my ipad! > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:29:34 PM UTC+2, Luc wrote: > > > > > > Clojure is Clojure, Java and how much of the core of the is written in it > > > is an implementation detail. > > > > > > No build tool = pain in the .... In large projects. > > > > > > Luc P. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, you're right. Clojure itself is just a functional Lisp. > > > > > > > > But, Clojure is at least 2 languages: Lisp & Java. Lisp by itself isn't > > > > that complicated but adding Java makes it much harder. > > > > > > > > ClojurePY is Lisp and Python. Python has a lower barrier to entry than > > > Java. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Timothy Baldridge > > > > <tbald...@gmail.com<javascript:>>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Clojure is incredibly complicated. > > > > > > > > > > I'd be careful about going that far. Clojure itself is not really > > > > > that > > > > > complicated. I think it's more the restrictions the JVM puts on it. > > > > > As > > > an > > > > > example, see RestFn.java, AFn.java, etc. Since the python VM supports > > > > > first-class functions all that complexity isn't needed. > > > > > > > > > > So I agree with it having a lower barrier of entry (which is one of > > > the > > > > > reasons I wrote it), but I think that's more the fault of the JVM > > > > > than > > > > > Clojure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, that's why I use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Timothy > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > clo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > > > > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient > > > with > > > > > your first post. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > clo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > > > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > > > your first post. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > > -- > > > Softaddicts<lprefo...@softaddicts.ca <javascript:>> sent by ibisMail from > > > my ipad! > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > > your first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > -- > Softaddicts<lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca> sent by ibisMail from my ipad! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > -- Softaddicts<lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca> sent by ibisMail from my ipad! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
