On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Phil Hagelberg <technoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Tom Emerson" <tremer...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Phil Hagelberg <technoma...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> This was one of the most disorienting things I encountered when starting
>>> with clojure. I'm used to codebases providing a bin/ directory or at
>>> least a shell script to start from. It wouldn't be so bad if the java
>>> CLI launcher were any good, but it's pretty lousy.
>>
>> This could be rectified with an appropriate shell-script / batch file
>> that is part of the standard distribution. Unfortunately the nature of
>> Java means you need to deal with classpaths and what not. The addition
>> of the manifest to the clojure jar file so that it can be launched
>> with
>>
>> $ java -jar clojure.jar
>>
>> is a Win, but it could be better.
>
> A bundled shell script would help, but it will still look pretty silly
> in ps or top when you've got a more interesting classpath. Hashdot also
> provides easy daemonization, which you would have to handle yourself.
>
> It seems to me (being spoiled by package managers and not having any
> Java experience) that you would want Clojure to be able to use
> system-installed libraries (jars provided by apt-get) automatically,
> which is pretty easy to do in hashdot. Someone on #clojure seemed to say
> this was a bad idea. I couldn't make head or tail of his reasoning, but
> maybe there's a problem with it?
>
>> The downside of hashdot is that the developers do not distribute
>> binary packages, so it is up to the user to go out and download it,
>> get and build/install APR, and Windows users are stuck. I agree that
>> hashdot is a good solution, but it isn't optimal IMHO.
>
> Well, the project is only a month or so old, but the developer is very
> responsive. It couldn't take long for someone familiar with C to give it
> a decent ./configure file and get a few .debs and .rpms up for
> download. It's a little effort up front to save a fair amount of time
> for users getting started.
>
> -Phil

I believe in Java, it's generally assumed to be bad practice to have
every library under the Sun in your class path. Maybe there is some
slight overhead in having all of those jars available, I don't know.
(Anyone have any insight on this) I wouldn't think that would be the
case, but the system has to at least read every jar to find out what
classes it contains. (And the memory requirements of storing that
data)

Regardless, any shell scripts that come with clojure should at least
be able to read a lib/ directory, and add any libraries found there.
This makes it as easy as:

1) download package
2) extract
3) move jar files to lib/
4) start repl and go.
5) Profit!

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