On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:32:38 +0100, Simon Hobson <li...@thehobsons.co.uk> articulated:
> Jerry wrote (having given up reading I think): I have a system to manage. I cannot spend all my working time here. > > > >So, rather than update ClamAV and/or their OS, which in the > > > >majority > >> >of cases would involve no monetary expense, users will purchase > >> >new servers and flock en masse to Microsoft, spend thousands > >> >more on Microsoft Windows Server 2010, Exchange, etc and learn > >> >new skills to administer said network. Could I ask you a > >> >personal question; are you on drugs and if so, can I have some > >> >because that is one hell of a trip you are on? > >> > >> You really think they don't do that ? In the real world, PHBs all > >> over do take just that sort of decision - how else do you think MS > >> got where they are. > > > >The reasons are legion; however, for starters a fully functional GUI > >has to listed at or near the top. For instance, one of the more > >requested features I have seen on the Postfix forum is a GUI. There > >have even been inquires about one for Dovecot. NetManager > ><http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/> is becoming very popular > >in the *nix community. One of Microsoft's greatest accomplishments > >was their GUI and early use of hot plugging devices and plug & play > >capability. I seriously doubt that some FOSS EOLing their software > >had any discernible influence on its success. In any case, none of > >this has anything to do with ClamAV + EOL. > > Err, it does have something to do with it. You made the assertion > that no-one would spend money replacing a system rather than upgrade > it. Two of us now have pointed out that real world PHB do exactly > that sort of thing - and this issue with clamav getting the kill > switch can be just the sort of excuse they need. It may not be a > valid reason, but then so many business decisions are based on having > enough excuses to do what you want rather than doing what would > logically be right. As Giampaolo comments, some people (especially > PHBs) simply see it as "that Linux stuff blew up, best go with > Microsoft like everyone else". The two who have "pointed out that real world PHB do exactly that sort of thing" now are operating broken systems. So much for credibility. > Fortunately that's not the case where I am - this box replaced an > iMail server running on NT4 which was forever crashing and getting > used for spamming. No-one on the engineering or support teams mourned > it's loss ! But equally, if it wasn't for the licence costs, > management would still be happier with a Microsoft 'solution'. NT is ancient history. Why you would even mention it is beyond me, although it might be interesting to know when they actually did get around to swapping it out. Then again, maybe I don't want to know. > > > >Furthermore, why wouldn't these <quote>small companies running > > > >their > >> >crappy and old mailing systems</quote> install updated versions > >> >of the OS, etc they all ready have installed? > >> > >> In many cases, they will have systems that were installed for them > >> some time ago, and that they no longer have paid support for. > >> When it "dies" they'll go to someone to "fix it" - and lets face > >> it, there are a lot more outfits that will tell them they need an > >> Exchange server than there are that will tell them it's an easy > >> fix. > > > >There isn't, at least as far as I know, a fully functional *.nix > >replacement that is equivalent to Exchange. > > I never suggested there was. What I did say is that there are plenty > of people who will be happy to tell the PHB that what they really > need is this nice shiny Exchange server (ie something that gets them > points for their sales targets, and of course commission) rather than > "I can fix this in a few minutes". Plenty of PHBs will believe that, > because it's an expert telling them right ? > > Trust me, I've been in situations where they've made a point of not > letting me near a customer in case I point out these things. And what has that got to do with the price of tea in China? Salesmen sell products, make money in the form of a commission and support their families. Do you have something against an individual making an honest living? > >As my mother use to tell me (paraphrased): " I shouldn't have to tell > >you to pick up your toys; you should know enough to do it." > > Did she ever lock you in the cupboard (or insert other punishment) > because you didn't follow some instruction she left on a piece of > paper in a place you never look ? No, she never, I think never, left me secret notes. Any notes she might have left were clearly stuck on the refrigerator. > >The point being is that you procrastinated and now are paying the > >price. > > Made a decision, based on resources available, what else is going on, > and an assumption (now proven false) that my working software > wouldn't break without me doing something to break it. it's uptime is > 405 days, cf the comments above about people with systems setup by > others that just sit in the corner and work. "Up time" can mean many things, such as how long you have delayed doing routine maintenance on your system. I agree, if it is the only system you have, doing routine maintenance can be a hassle. Then again, if you do not have a backup system, it is by no means your major concern. > The timing is naff - in (hopefully) a few months, I'd have a better > hand me down server and I've have migrated the system anyway. > > >Perhaps this is a good learning > >experience. > > Yes, I've learned that commercial companies don't have a monopoly on > these things ! What things? Making a decision and implementing it! Grow up! It happens in every facet of life. You made a decision NOT to properly maintain your system and now you are just trying to pass the buck onto anyone who will listen. If you find the decision by ClamAV intolerable, use something else. No one, at least I hope no one, is holding a gun to your head. > I suppose I could just copy the guys running the Windows servers - > and just configure all the systems to automatically install any and > every update automatically. And then just fix things as they break - > how I love watching the going on on patch Tuesdays :-) Yea, I guess you are right. *.nix users would never let their systems use deprecated software to the extent that newer products would fail! Or, would they? There is incompetence every where. Sometimes, all you need to do is look into a mirror. -- Jerry clamav.u...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ The distinction between Freedom and Liberty is not accurately known; naturalists have been unable to find a living specimen of either. Ambrose Bierce _______________________________________________ Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net http://www.clamav.net/support/ml
