Hi All, Initially I didn't feel like getting into this discussion, because for starters I am really new here, but I also I generally don't like to argue. I spend most of days arguing about some or other scientific question, that when I come home I just want to learn perl. I think one think that I haven't seen here is this, programming is fun! At least it is for me, it is like a game, you are given a problem and you have to solve it. The first time you solve it, it is usually ugly but functional, than you try to make it more elegant. Science used to be like that, I don know if it is anymore.
I actually can't complain about this list, the times I posted, I got very positive feedback and more importantly I learned a lot. Which brings me to Peter's early post. See, I have been using perl for years now, but I don know perl. I cau use it under a very specific set of circumstances where BioPerl does its magic. So I decided to learn it and I had to start from the beginning. Now, I spent a good chucnk of early career in Science studying exactly what Peter was talking about: how do people learn? One thing that most camps in this area (and there are many: cognitive learning, behavioristic learning, Vigostkyian and so forth) agree is that most people have no idea of how they learn and that's why most people make horrible teachers. That happens in Science all the time. A lot of the most brilliant minds in the world, turn out to be the worst teacher's ever. Partly, I believe, because they are brilliant. I think part of being very good in something is not in understanding the details, but understand the generalities. If you understand the main concepts of filed, the general ones, than you can apply that knowledge anywhere and you won't be like me. I only understand a little speck of perl. I understand it quite well, but outside of its scope I am useless. That's where sometimes we (and I personally do it a lot) fail, because the logic behind our field to damn obvious, that how can anyone miss it? It is only obvious however, because at some point we mastered those general concepts. And more often than not one can only master the general concepts of related fields, of course that is unless your are brilliant, and some people just are. So I think, it is more than the case of the bell curve Peter described, some people just don't know the obvious, but sometimes we forget that the obvious is only obvious to some. Hence the comment: go and read the documentation. If you don't understand some basics any man page could be written in greek and it may be more clear than in english. :) I haven't been in this list for long, but I got to say I like it. The human conflict is never going to go away and that brings me to my last point. I think some peole wish they were their code as some scientists wish they were their science. Because your code can be debugged, improved, can be made almost perfect, but as Larry put it so well: People get really annoyed when you try to debug them. By my 0.00000001 million dollar worth is that sometimes we have to go beyond the words and look for the intentions, cause words, especially in the internet are flawed and often disconnected from their context. And I kind of understand both sides, it is hard to be harshly criticized, but at the same time when I see pseudoscience it makes me want to just go out and kill someone. The discussions may never end and some people will always be offended by critic and some people will always be offended by ugly code. But here I tend to agree with Randal, we must remember that the individual value of the human-been is in who we are and not what you code or write. And who we are is beyond the scope not only of this list, but of the whole Internet I believe, because you don really relate to people here, you relate to emails and posts. That not who we are or at least it doesn't have to be. I am here, because I enjoy learning perl, and I giggle like a little boy every time my programs work and I know that weather in a nice or a rough way, people here will help me improve. So it is my gain and I can live with the occasional your code sucks or the capital letters. And Lali, you better get a thick skin, because weather you like or not, in science you going to get nastiness all of the time. I don think it is the correct way to be, but it is the way it is. It will help you stay sane, specially during your quals :) Cheers, T. On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Shawn H Corey <shawnhco...@ncf.ca> wrote: > On 11-04-23 11:01 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >> Therefore, you're safe from "my wrath" since you'd only be asking >> questions and not trying to answer someone else. >> > > Anyone can be safe from your wrath simply by setting up a message filter > that deletes your posts unread. > > Or they can unsubsrcibe from the list and learn Python or Ruby. > > > > -- > Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth, > Shawn > > Confusion is the first step of understanding. > > Programming is as much about organization and communication > as it is about coding. > > The secret to great software: Fail early & often. > > Eliminate software piracy: use only FLOSS. > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org > For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org > http://learn.perl.org/ > > > -- "Education is not to be used to promote obscurantism." - Theodonius Dobzhansky. "Gracias a la vida que me ha dado tanto Me ha dado el sonido y el abecedario Con él, las palabras que pienso y declaro Madre, amigo, hermano Y luz alumbrando la ruta del alma del que estoy amando Gracias a la vida que me ha dado tanto Me ha dado la marcha de mis pies cansados Con ellos anduve ciudades y charcos Playas y desiertos, montañas y llanos Y la casa tuya, tu calle y tu patio" Violeta Parra - Gracias a la Vida Tiago S. F. Hori PhD Candidate - Ocean Science Center-Memorial University of Newfoundland
