GREAT STUFF! thanks alot but those who use software can u guys pls tell us wat
softwares u use?
Thulasi Ram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: knowledge
showcased! brilliant!!
appreaciate ur effort to share this to us Wasim!
On Feb 19, 2008 7:49 PM, kaissiom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Voiceless BGMs - Explained!
I'm not much of any expert on this topic, as I happened to accidentally or
unintentionally discover the process of ripping voiceless BGMs. There may be
members on this group who have expertise in this area who may be able to shed
some more light on this topic. Following article is my limited understanding
of this subject, please correct me if I am wrong.
First, some definitions:
* For the sake of discussion L refers to Left and R refers to Right (speakers)
Mono: Single channel (no difference in L or R speaker, both reproduce one sound)
L speaker = R speaker = One sound from both.
[Note]: Rahman has been very disappointed that 'Kabhi Na Kabhi' was recorded in
stereo, but released in Mono.
Stereo: Two or more channels (generally two channel, separate
recording/reproduction of sound, L and R)
L speaker: recorded/reproduced separately
+ R speaker: recorded/reproduced separately
= 3 different sounds possible: L sound + Shared L/R sound + R sound
[Note]: Think of it as a Venn diagram: Both L and R speakers reproduce same
sound most of the time, but will also have variations of their own. Quite
evident in 'Daud' - Title track, the entire track has variations in Left and
Right channel.
Stereo Surround: 5.1 or higher (5 channels plus 1 LFE; Dolby-Digital,dts)
L Front speaker: recorded/reproduced separately
+R Front speaker: recorded/reproduced separately
+C Center speaker: recorded/reproduced separately
+L Rear speaker: recorded/reproduced separately
+R Rear speaker: recorded/reproduced separately
+LFE Low-Frequency Effects(sub-woofer)
= Surround Sound experience.
[Note]: Most, but not all, DVD-Videos have 5.1 surround sound. And also the
rare, but dying, DVD-Audio format falls in this category.
There's no limitation on the number of channels, I find some English movies
with 7.1 surround sound , you can also buy a 10.1 sound systems, if you can
find source to utilize those channels.
Almost all Media formats can reproduce mono and stereo, but not surround:
Cassette tapes: Stereo and Mono
CD: Stereo and Mono
VCD: Stereo and Mono
DVD: Surround, Stereo and Mono
How does this relate to voiceless BGMs?
Voiceless BGMs are only possible from surround sound, given that they were
recorded and reproduce as surround. So, that leaves us with DVD-Audio, which I
won't get into, and DVD-Video, by which we mean regular DVD movies.
How are BGMs recorded on DVDs?
I don't know exactly, but that's up to the composer and the sound engineer.
But in order to qualify as surround sound, they have to record different sounds
for different channels. For example they may record actors' voices for the
CENTER channel and the background score for the two-REAR speakers and a
combination of both voices and score on the two-FRONT speakers (this is
hypothetical, simple and straightforward example):
L/R Front speakers: Combination/layers of both voices and background score
CENTER speaker: Only voices
L/R Rear speakers: Only background score
You can imagine watching a movie and an extra sound effect from back, or
someone yelling from behind you or a car whooshing by. And remember, they can
try many different combinations with 5 different channels.
How to extract voiceless BGMs?
Simply put, you have to tap into the channels that only contain the
'Background Score'. In the simple example given above, it would be the 'L/R
Rear Speaker/Channel'.
How do kaissiom and AJ extract voiceless BGMs?
Well, I can't speak for AJ, but I know he uses some software. And as far as
I'm concerned, I can write a longer post than this one trying to explain how I
accidentally did it. My method is not all software- it's combination of
hardware and software. I was fixing my computer and my home-theater system
set-up, such that I can play the music from my computer on my surround sound
system. This required additional cables, adapters, etc.. but I accidentally
cut one wire and attached it in the wrong place somewhere on the soundcard and
amplifier. And when I played a movie on my computer, all I could hear was
voices, no BGM. When I switched some wires.. I got BGM, no voices... hence,
voiceless BGMs. I still have to switch these wires... every time I have to
extract voiceless BGMs ;-)
How can one extract voiceless BGMs?
-[Software]- Easiest way to do it: Find a DVD-ripping software that not only
rips audio from DVD, but rips audio as separate channels. Once you have all
the audio in different channels, keep the channel with BGM, discard the rest.
-[Hardware]- Complicated way of doing it: Cut some wires from the surround
sound system and record it from the amplifier - this is how I do it. It takes
me about 5 to 6 hours to do a movie because I perform additional editing using
software to enhance the quality. I use hardware(amplifier/soundcard) to
extract the audio and then use software(SoundForge) to enhance it.
Are there any caveats?
As with everything... Yes.
-[Source] The movie has to be recorded in surround sound. Older movies (Roja,
Bombay, etc.), and surprisingly some newer movies are not recorded in surround
sound... therefore, NO VOICELESS BGMs are possible - Ever.
-[Media] Even if the movie was recorded in surround sound. You have to get
hold of the DVD with 5.1 surround sound. VCD or a tape will not work. Some
Indian DVDs just have the '5.1 Dolby Digital' stamp for the 'coolness' factor,
and are not true surround sound. I have had this experience with Zubeidaa. In
other words, there are some fake surround sound DVD out there, and they will
not work - NO VOICELESS BGMs.
- [Application] Finally, the application used to extract the BGMs should
support surround sound.
What is 'Sync sound'?
Some movies, mostly newer ones are recorded in sync sound. Lagaan, Swades, RDB
are all sync sound. Sync sound means actors' dialogues are recorded live
while shooting the movie, actors do not have to go in for a 'lip sync' or
'dubbing' session after the movie. BMGs are added to the original dialogues.
Usually, when movies are recorded in sync sound, we end up having crisp/clean
surround sound... Voices are separte, BGM is separate as quite evident in
Lagaan/Swades BGMs. When movie is not done in Sync sound, BGMs tend to be
messy. Saathiya was done in Sync sound, where as disappointgly, Guru was not.
When dubbing is done at the same time as BGMs are added, they tend to be
layered together and we don't get the crisp clean voiceless BGMs. Extracting
BGMs from Rajni movies is ever difficult, regardless of whether it's done in
sync or not. The extra 'Rajni Effects' or the 'swoosh-whoosh' sound every time
the superstar moves a finger... is added on top of the BGMs.
Having said that, recent media reports suggested that Hrithik and Ash were in
studios doing some voice recordings/dubbing... at around the same time reports
of 'Rahman finishing up the BGM for Jodha Akbar' were cropping up. I really
hope JA is done in Sync sound, otherwise the BGM could be tainted.
Sorry for the long/dry post. Vithur and others have expressed great interest
in this subject and I somehow come across as someone who is hiding something.
How can a blind person (me) lead someone on a path? When I myself found the
path accidentally and seem to be walking on it unknowingly.
But there! The unguarded 'secret' is out, the knowledge does not just rest with
me anymore. I feel like a great burden has been lifted off my shoulders,
although I have touched on and explained this topics in various bits and pieces
over time.
Hopefully, I have cleared up some doubts here, and raised new ones.. As always,
please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or corrections.
I too believe that it will be a loss to Rahman fans, if we do not collect all
the available voiceless BGMs out there. Therefore it is important to first
establish how many such true surround sound DVDs exist out there. Once we
establish that, we can see which ones have been extracted and which ones are
pending. Then, we can go from there.
Regards,
Rahmaniac.
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