knowledge showcased! brilliant!! appreaciate ur effort to share this to us Wasim!
On Feb 19, 2008 7:49 PM, kaissiom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Voiceless BGMs - Explained! > > I'm not much of any expert on this topic, as I happened to accidentally or > unintentionally discover the process of ripping voiceless BGMs. There may > be members on this group who have expertise in this area who may be able to > shed some more light on this topic. Following article is my limited > understanding of this subject, please correct me if I am wrong. > > First, some definitions: > * For the sake of discussion *L* refers to *Left* and *R* refers to *Right > * (speakers) > > *Mono*: Single channel (no difference in L or R speaker, both reproduce > one sound) > *L speaker = R speaker = One sound from both.* > *[Note]: Rahman has been very disappointed that 'Kabhi Na Kabhi' was > recorded in stereo, but released in Mono.* > > *Stereo:* Two or more channels (generally two channel, separate > recording/reproduction of sound, L and R) > *L speaker: recorded/reproduced separately > + R speaker: recorded/reproduced separately > = 3 different sounds possible: L sound + Shared L/R sound + R sound* > *[Note]: Think of it as a Venn diagram: Both L and R speakers reproduce > same sound most of the time, but will also have variations of their own. > Quite evident in 'Daud' - Title track, the entire track has variations in > Left and Right channel.* > > *Stereo Surround*: 5.1 or higher (5 channels plus 1 LFE; > Dolby-Digital,dts) > *L Front speaker: recorded/reproduced separately > +R Front speaker: recorded/reproduced separately > +C Center speaker: recorded/reproduced separately > +L Rear speaker: recorded/reproduced separately > +R Rear speaker: recorded/reproduced separately > +LFE Low-Frequency Effects(sub-woofer) > = Surround Sound experience.* > *[Note]: Most, but not all, DVD-Videos have 5.1 surround sound. And also > the rare, but dying, DVD-Audio format falls in this category.* > > There's no limitation on the number of channels, I find some English > movies with 7.1 surround sound , you can also buy a 10.1 sound systems, if > you can find source to utilize those channels. > > Almost all Media formats can reproduce mono and stereo, but not surround: > Cassette tapes: Stereo and Mono > CD: Stereo and Mono > VCD: Stereo and Mono > *DVD: Surround*, Stereo and Mono > > *How does this relate to voiceless BGMs?* > Voiceless BGMs are only possible from surround sound, given that they were > recorded and reproduce as surround. So, that leaves us with DVD-Audio, > which I won't get into, and DVD-Video, by which we mean regular DVD movies. > * > How are BGMs recorded on DVDs?* > I don't know exactly, but that's up to the composer and the sound > engineer. But in order to qualify as surround sound, they have to record > different sounds for different channels. For example they may record actors' > voices for the CENTER channel and the background score for the two-REAR > speakers and a combination of both voices and score on the two-FRONT > speakers (this is hypothetical, simple and straightforward example): > *L/R Front* speakers: Combination/layers of both voices and background > score > *CENTER* speaker: Only voices > *L/R Rear** *speakers: *Only background score* > > You can imagine watching a movie and an extra sound effect from back, or > someone yelling from behind you or a car whooshing by. And remember, they > can try many different combinations with 5 different channels. > > *How to extract voiceless BGMs?* > Simply put, you have to tap into the channels that only contain the > 'Background Score'. In the simple example given above, it would be the > 'L/R Rear Speaker/Channel'. > > *How do kaissiom and AJ extract voiceless BGMs?* > Well, I can't speak for AJ, but I know he uses some software. And as far > as I'm concerned, I can write a longer post than this one trying to explain > how I accidentally did it. My method is not all software- it's combination > of hardware and software. I was fixing my computer and my home-theater > system set-up, such that I can play the music from my computer on my > surround sound system. This required additional cables, adapters, etc.. but > I accidentally cut one wire and attached it in the wrong place somewhere on > the soundcard and amplifier. And when I played a movie on my computer, all > I could hear was voices, no BGM. When I switched some wires.. I got BGM, no > voices... hence, voiceless BGMs. I still have to switch these wires... > every time I have to extract voiceless BGMs ;-) > * > How can one extract voiceless BGMs?* > *-[Software]*- Easiest way to do it: Find a DVD-ripping software that not > only rips audio from DVD, but rips audio as separate channels. Once you > have all the audio in different channels, keep the channel with BGM, discard > the rest. > *-[Hardware]*- Complicated way of doing it: Cut some wires from the > surround sound system and record it from the amplifier - this is how I do > it. It takes me about 5 to 6 hours to do a movie because I perform > additional editing using software to enhance the quality. I use > hardware(amplifier/soundcard) to extract the audio and then use > software(SoundForge) to enhance it. > * > Are there any caveats?* > As with everything... Yes. > *-[Source]* The movie has to be recorded in surround sound. Older movies > (Roja, Bombay, etc.), and surprisingly some newer movies are not recorded in > surround sound... therefore, NO VOICELESS BGMs are possible - Ever. > *-[Media]* Even if the movie was recorded in surround sound. You have to > get hold of the DVD with 5.1 surround sound. VCD or a tape will not > work. Some Indian DVDs just have the '5.1 Dolby Digital' stamp for the > 'coolness' factor, and are not true surround sound. I have had this > experience with Zubeidaa. In other words, there are some fake surround > sound DVD out there, and they will not work - NO VOICELESS BGMs. > *- [Application]* Finally, the application used to extract the BGMs should > support surround sound. > > *What is 'Sync sound'?* > Some movies, mostly newer ones are recorded in sync sound. Lagaan, > Swades, RDB are all sync sound. Sync sound means actors' dialogues are > recorded live while shooting the movie, actors do not have to go in for a > 'lip sync' or 'dubbing' session after the movie. BMGs are added to the > original dialogues. Usually, when movies are recorded in sync sound, we end > up having crisp/clean surround sound... Voices are separte, BGM is separate > as quite evident in Lagaan/Swades BGMs. When movie is not done in Sync > sound, BGMs tend to be messy. Saathiya was done in Sync sound, where as > disappointgly, Guru was not. When dubbing is done at the same time as BGMs > are added, they tend to be layered together and we don't get the crisp clean > voiceless BGMs. Extracting BGMs from Rajni movies is ever difficult, > regardless of whether it's done in sync or not. The extra 'Rajni Effects' > or the 'swoosh-whoosh' sound every time the superstar moves a finger... is > added on top of the BGMs. > > Having said that, recent media reports suggested that Hrithik and Ash were > in studios doing some voice recordings/dubbing... at around the same time > reports of 'Rahman finishing up the BGM for Jodha Akbar' were cropping up. > I really hope JA is done in Sync sound, otherwise the BGM could be tainted. > > Sorry for the long/dry post. Vithur and others have expressed great > interest in this subject and I somehow come across as someone who is hiding > something. How can a blind person (me) lead someone on a path? When I > myself found the path accidentally and seem to be walking on it unknowingly. > > But there! The unguarded 'secret' is out, the knowledge does not just rest > with me anymore. I feel like a great burden has been lifted off my > shoulders, although I have touched on and explained this topics in various > bits and pieces over time. > > Hopefully, I have cleared up some doubts here, and raised new ones.. As > always, please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or > corrections. > > I too believe that it will be a loss to Rahman fans, if we do not collect > all the available voiceless BGMs out there. Therefore it is important to > first establish how many such true surround sound DVDs exist out there. > Once we establish that, we can see which ones have been extracted and which > ones are pending. Then, we can go from there. > > > Regards, > Rahmaniac. > > >
