On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 1:45 PM 4st nomic <4st.no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 10:51 AM Janet Cobb via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/23 12:35, 4st nomic via agora-discussion wrote:
>> >> Rule
>> >>> UNDEFINED is inevitable and unstoppable despite any appearance or
>> event
>> >>> that may indicate otherwise.
>> >>>
>> >>> Specifically, at this point in time, it is known that:
>> >>> - Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT amend itself, enact, re-enact, or repeal
>> rules.
>> >>
>> >> Why not just "cause rule changes"?
>> >>
>> >> In any case, this prohibition is overridden by Rule 105.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Oh thank goodness, so, do we need any additional action for containment?
>> >
>> > Also... in addition, "itself" should be "Rule UNDEFINED". Is the rule
>> > breaking itself??? We need to patch this before it's adopted!!!! AHHH!
>>
>>
>> I think you're misunderstanding. I don't think this prohibition (or,
>> potentially, any of the prohibitions) actually does anything stops
>> anything. I am not saying I think R105 prevents anything itself.
>>
>>
>> >>> - Rule UNDEFINED CAN join contracts.
>> >>
>> >> Rule 1742 explicitly restricts the parties of a contract to persons.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Does this clause point out an issue with contracts? regardless, it's
>> > probably a good thing Rule UNDEFINED cannot join contracts.
>>
>>
>> No. It would be bad for a non-person to be able to be party to a contract.
>>
>>
>> > We can patch this too.
>> >
>> >> - Rule UNDEFINED CAN cause a player or players to win, despite it being
>> >>> ILLEGAL.
>> >> The Rule cannot be prosecuted for violating a Rule.
>> >
>> > I feel like we DO need a way to prosecute this rule... but for now, we
>> can
>> > just repeal this sentence.
>>
>>
>> The absence of this clause doesn't prevent the rule from causing wins
>> (directly or indirectly).
>>
>>
>> >>> It is currently unknown why Rule UNDEFINED provides containment of
>> Rule
>> >>> UNDEFINED. It is ENCOURAGED to update Rule UNDEFINED's description
>> with
>> >> any
>> >>> and all available details of what exactly Rule UNDEFINED is.
>> >>>
>> >>> Addenda: Any and all addenda SHALL be found in the Agent's weekly
>> report.
>> >>> }
>> >>
>> >> "addenda" to what?
>> >>
>> >>
>> > "Addenda" are any commentary, interactions, or other notes that are
>> useful
>> > to the logging and archival of an anomalous entity, so we have good
>> records
>> > of its effects, capabilities, anomalities, purpose, discovery, and
>> creation.
>>
>>
>> Sure.
>>
>> First, my point was it should say "addenda to this Rule" probably.
>>
>> Second, what makes something count as an "addendum"? Can someone just
>> publish an "addendum" and thereby require the Agent to republish that in
>> perpetuity?
>>
>>
>> > Ok... so after reading your containment notes... Can we do anything
>> about
>> > it now that it's currently contained in a proposal? I'm afraid it will
>> > escape if we withdraw the proposal and resubmit, so can we somehow...
>> > submit a new proposal to fix these issues before the Recordkeepor
>> publishes
>> > eir report?
>>
>>
>> You have plenty of time to withdraw and resubmit. This wasn't
>> distributed in the most recent distribution.
>>
>>
>> > {Title: Additional Containment Procedure!!!
>> > Adoption Index: 1.0
>> > Author: 4st
>> > Co-Author: Janet
>> >
>> > In this proposal, all instances of Rule UNDEFINED refer to Rule
>> UNDEFINED
>> > enacted by the Proposal "Secure Contain Protect" submitted on 6/25/23
>> > 02:44, by 4st via agora-business.
>> >
>> > Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "describe any interaction" with
>> > "interact".
>>
>>
>> I believe this still makes "interact" a new action with no effect.
>>
>>
>> > Amend Rule UNDEFINED by appending "Before the Rulekeepor publishes eir
>> > report, e CAN and SHALL modify this rule by replacing all instances of
>> > "UNDEFINED" with the rule's ID, and then removing this sentence. "
>>
>>
>> A person cannot directly effect a rule change.
>>
>> --
>> Janet Cobb
>>
>> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
>>
>>
> ok I updated the additional containment procedures, now the rule modifies
> itself to contain itself, instead of a person or player doing it.
> I also prevented it from enacting wins directly.
> {Title: Additional Containment Procedure!!!
> Adoption Index: 1.0
> Author: 4st
> Co-Author: Janet
>
> In this proposal, all instances of Rule UNDEFINED refer to Rule UNDEFINED
> enacted by the Proposal "Secure Contain Protect" submitted on 6/25/23
> 02:44, by 4st via agora-business.
>
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "describe any interaction" with
> "interact".
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "the Agent's regulations" with "the
> Agent's administrative regulations".
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by removing "- Rule UNDEFINED CAN cause a player or
> players to win, despite it being ILLEGAL."
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by removing "- Calls for Judgement SHALL NOT provide
> judgement on Rule UNDEFINED. Violations of this clause are a class 10 crime
> of violating Rule UNDEFINED."
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "contracts or pledges." with "contracts,
> promises, or pledges."
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by adding
> {
> - Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT be amended by an interaction with Rule UNDEFINED
> - Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT cause a player or players to win by an interaction
> - Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT create, destroy, or transfer assets.
> - Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT flip switches.
> }
> after "Specifically, at this point in time, it is known that:"
>
> [As part of containment, unfortunately, it looks like Rule UNDEFINED CAN
> currently amend Rule UNDEFINED??? HALP!!!]
>
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT amend itself,
> enact, re-enact, or repeal rules." with
> "- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT enact, re-enact, amend, or repeal rules other
> than Rule UNDEFINED".
>
> Amend Rule UNDEFINED by appending "Immediately before the Rulekeepor
> publishes eir report, Rule UNDEFINED modifies Rule UNDEFINED by replacing
> all instances of "UNDEFINED" with Rule UNDEFINED's ID, and then removing
> this sentence. "
> }
> --
> 4ˢᵗ
> Deputy Herald and Deputy Prime Minister
> Uncertified Bad Idea Generator
>
More containment: Murphy noticed that it is very dangerous for interactions
with Rule UNDEFINED to happen concurrently, and it was thus we have molded
time itself so that interactions now happening at a later date.
{Title: Additional Containment Procedure!!!
Adoption Index: 1.0
Author: 4st
Co-Author: Janet, Murphy
In this proposal, all instances of Rule UNDEFINED refer to Rule UNDEFINED
enacted by the Proposal "Secure Contain Protect" submitted on 6/25/23
02:44, by 4st via agora-business.
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "describe any interaction" with
"interact".
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "the Agent's regulations" with "the
Agent's administrative regulations".
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by removing "- Rule UNDEFINED CAN cause a player or
players to win, despite it being ILLEGAL."
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by removing "- Calls for Judgement SHALL NOT provide
judgement on Rule UNDEFINED. Violations of this clause are a class 10 crime
of violating Rule UNDEFINED."
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "contracts or pledges." with "contracts,
promises, or pledges."
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by adding
{
- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT be amended by an interaction with Rule UNDEFINED
- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT cause a player or players to win by an interaction
- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT create, destroy, or transfer assets.
- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT flip switches.
- Any and all interactions with Rule UNDEFINED happen at power 0.01 during
the Agent's weekly report, approximately six weeks in the future, and the
Agent SHALL track these events before, during, and after their occurence.
}
after "Specifically, at this point in time, it is known that:"
[As part of containment, unfortunately, it looks like Rule UNDEFINED CAN
currently amend Rule UNDEFINED??? HALP!!!]
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing
"- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT amend itself, enact, re-enact, or repeal rules."
with
"- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT enact, re-enact, amend, or repeal rules other than
Rule UNDEFINED".
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by appending
{
Immediately before the Rulekeepor publishes eir report, Rule UNDEFINED
modifies Rule UNDEFINED by:
- replacing all instances of "UNDEFINED" with Rule UNDEFINED's ID
- removing this paragraph.
}
to the end of Rule UNDEFINED.
}
--
4ˢᵗ
Deputy Herald and Deputy Prime Minister
Uncertified Bad Idea Generator
