On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 12:01 AM Janet Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 6/25/23 02:44, 4st nomic via agora-business wrote:
> > Sorry!!! This has to be contained somewhere!!!!
> >
> > I have to submit the following proposal:
> > {
> > Title: Secure Contain Protect
> > Adoption Index: 1.0
> > Author: 4st
> > Co-Author:
> >
> > Enact the following rule entitled "Rule UNDEFINED":
> > {
> > Clearance Level: Unrestricted
> > Containment Class: Keter
> > Disruption Class: Vlam
> > Risk Class: Warning
> >
> > Special Containment Procedures: Rule UNDEFINED is to be recorded by the
> > Rulekeepor, and events pertaining to Rule UNDEFINED are to be recorded by
> > the office of the Agent. Each week, the Agent CAN and SHALL select any
> > active player at random, whereupon that player CAN, once per selection,
> by
> > announcement, and SHALL in a timely manner from selection, describe their
> > interaction with Rule UNDEFINED for the Agent to record. Violations of
> this
> > clause are a class 1 crime of violating Rule UNDEFINED. The Speaker CAN,
> > once per week by announcement, describe any interaction with Rule
> UNDEFINED
> > and SHOULD do so if it would contain it. It is unknown if this
> containment
> > procedure provides enough safety at this time, and it is ENCOURAGED to
> > update the special containment procedure as necessary.
>
>
> "describe" is a speech act, and should not be subject to a CAN.
> "describing an interaction" doesn't appear to actually do anything.
> Based on the context, I assume you're going for the Rule applying its
> effects?
>
so we should
{
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "describe any interaction" with "interact"
} ?
If "describing an interaction" ultimately doesn't do anything, then that's
VERY GOOD. We want to limit the effects of this thing as MUCH as we can.
>
> > In addition to this procedure, it is commonly believed that
> > - Rule 1698 and 101 currently prevent Rule UNDEFINED from causing damage
> to
> > its containment.
> > - Rule 1551 currently provides containment of Rule UNDEFINED to the
> current
> > timeline.
> > - Rule 2140 currently prevents escape of Rule UNDEFINED.
> > - Rule 869 currently prevents Rule UNDEFINED from making decisions and
> > causing serious damage to reality.
> > - Rule 104. through an unknown means, fully contained Rule UNDEFINED
> until
> > recently.
> > - Rule 2056 currently provides containment of many of Rule UNDEFINED's
> > effects.
> > - Rule 2158 prevents Rule UNDEFINED from creating parallel universes.
> > - Rule UNDEFINED provides the current level of final containment of Rule
> > UNDEFINED.
> >
> > Description: Rule UNDEFINED is a memetic phenomenon that exists as a rule
> > in the game of Agora. Overall, Rule UNDEFINED defines Rule UNDEFINED
> > incompletely due to the nature of Rule UNDEFINED being, on the whole,
> > indescribable in full. However, it is commonly believed that, in addition
> > to Rule UNDEFINED's other effects, Rule UNDEFINED is capable of
> [REDACTED],
> > there are at least ██ Rule UNDEFINED's at any point in time, and that
> Rule
> > UNDEFINED is inevitable and unstoppable despite any appearance or event
> > that may indicate otherwise.
> >
> > Specifically, at this point in time, it is known that:
> > - Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT amend itself, enact, re-enact, or repeal rules.
>
>
> Why not just "cause rule changes"?
>
> In any case, this prohibition is overridden by Rule 105.
>
>
Oh thank goodness, so, do we need any additional action for containment?
Also... in addition, "itself" should be "Rule UNDEFINED". Is the rule
breaking itself??? We need to patch this before it's adopted!!!! AHHH!
>
> > - Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT create contracts or pledges.
>
>
> Promises?
>
>
We should DEFINTELY patch that in.
>
> > - It is a class 10 crime to repeal Rule UNDEFINED.
>
>
> Persons cannot repeal rules, and only persons can commit crime (or, at
> least be prosecuted for them).
>
>
Thank goodness this clause does nothing!!!
>
> > - Rule UNDEFINED CAN join contracts.
>
>
> Rule 1742 explicitly restricts the parties of a contract to persons.
>
>
Does this clause point out an issue with contracts? regardless, it's
probably a good thing Rule UNDEFINED cannot join contracts.
>
> > - In the presence of Rule UNDEFINED, references to Rule UNDEFINED MUST
> > always reference Rule UNDEFINED by name. Violations of this clause are a
> > class 5 crime of violating Rule UNDEFINED.
> > - Calls for Judgement SHALL NOT provide judgement on Rule UNDEFINED.
> > Violations of this clause are a class 10 crime of violating Rule
> UNDEFINED.
>
>
> Please do not criminalize assigning a judgement under any circumstances.
> We just got rid of R2125's problematic clause.
OMG! We need to patch this out!!!
>
> > - Rule UNDEFINED CAN enact, repeal, or amend the Agent's regulations.
>
>
> "Agent's administrative regulations".
>
We can patch this too.
> - Rule UNDEFINED CAN cause a player or players to win, despite it being
> > ILLEGAL.
>
> The Rule cannot be prosecuted for violating a Rule.
I feel like we DO need a way to prosecute this rule... but for now, we can
just repeal this sentence.
>
>
Even if a player could be prosecuted, enabling winning by blatant rules
> violation is not interesting gameplay.
>
> There are ways to trivially win with a power-1 dictatorship other than
> by directly doing it.
>
>
> > It is currently unknown why Rule UNDEFINED provides containment of Rule
> > UNDEFINED. It is ENCOURAGED to update Rule UNDEFINED's description with
> any
> > and all available details of what exactly Rule UNDEFINED is.
> >
> > Addenda: Any and all addenda SHALL be found in the Agent's weekly report.
> > }
>
>
> "addenda" to what?
>
>
"Addenda" are any commentary, interactions, or other notes that are useful
to the logging and archival of an anomalous entity, so we have good records
of its effects, capabilities, anomalities, purpose, discovery, and creation.
> > Then, amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing UNDEFINED in Rule UNDEFINED with
> > Rule UNDEFINED's ID, and retitle Rule UNDEFINED to be named "Rule " with
> > Rule UNDEFINED's ID appended to this new name.
> > }
>
>
> Rule ID numbers are assigned when I publish them, not immediately after
> the rule is enacted.
>
Well we need to patch this too then!!
Ok... so after reading your containment notes... Can we do anything about
it now that it's currently contained in a proposal? I'm afraid it will
escape if we withdraw the proposal and resubmit, so can we somehow...
submit a new proposal to fix these issues before the Recordkeepor publishes
eir report?
I have this draft proposal to help contain it: let me know what else we can
do!! As this was primarily spawned from your notes, I'd be happy if you
submitted the additional containment procedures instead, but really, it's
of utmost importance that ANYONE does it.
{Title: Additional Containment Procedure!!!
Adoption Index: 1.0
Author: 4st
Co-Author: Janet
In this proposal, all instances of Rule UNDEFINED refer to Rule UNDEFINED
enacted by the Proposal "Secure Contain Protect" submitted on 6/25/23
02:44, by 4st via agora-business.
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "describe any interaction" with
"interact".
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "the Agent's regulations" with "the
Agent's administrative regulations".
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by removing "- Rule UNDEFINED CAN cause a player or
players to win, despite it being ILLEGAL."
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by removing "- Calls for Judgement SHALL NOT provide
judgement on Rule UNDEFINED. Violations of this clause are a class 10 crime
of violating Rule UNDEFINED."
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by replacing "contracts or pledges." with "contracts,
promises, or pledges."
[As part of containment, unfortunately, it looks like Rule UNDEFINED CAN
currently amend Rule UNDEFINED, at least temporarily?? HALP!!!]
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by removing "- Rule UNDEFINED CANNOT amend itself,
enact, re-enact, or repeal rules."
Amend Rule UNDEFINED by appending "Before the Rulekeepor publishes eir
report, e CAN and SHALL modify this rule by replacing all instances of
"UNDEFINED" with the rule's ID, and then removing this sentence. "
}
--
4ˢᵗ
Deputy Herald and Deputy Prime Minister
Uncertified Bad Idea Generator
