On Tue, 28 Apr 2009, Alex Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 09:41 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> It's worth nothing that Maud intended the Map of Agora to be a power-1 >> equivalent of the graffiti wall as well; the embedded names were put >> in through a few "power 1 proposal victories" (mostly commemorating the >> existence of an Ordinary coalition with enough votes to deface it >> by vote rather than outright scams, the equivalent of team wins by >> clout)... > > I sort-of regret that the days of Ordinary coalitions > are over (we have Support Democracy nowadays); on the other hand, > Support Democracy makes ordinary-proposal scams a lot more > interesting...
Actually, we always (in my history) had ways of making ordinary proposals Democratic (sometimes via support, sometimes Speaker, sometimes by paying a currency). So the ways to do it were always either a trick, or by making it a proposal that doesn't do anything but do the graffiti (the idea being that if you put forward a proposal that only did the graffiti, people would vote against it but wouldn't spend money or effort to make it democratic). So in that sense the Map re-writing has just been replaced with Win by Proposal (where you won by spending on the Vote Market IIRC, and everyone called it a fair trade; same was true with the Map although vote selling was less formal). The first step in the Town Fountain IIRC was actually cornering the currency market and making sure the Speaker was in the scam to block all democritizing methods of the time (I think the dependent method was w/o objection so easy to beat). >> Well my bet with comex was a good test of whether power 1 could lead >> to omnipotence... the answer being "it did but it wasn't trivial to >> find a way" but that sure doesn't mean it's good to get complacent and >> vote in a power-1 junta out of apathy! > comex and I have spent /months/ in the past looking for escalations from > low powers up to high powers (not continuously, I might add). They're > very hard to find, although I still think there are a few tricks for > that sort of thing left in the ruleset. Interestingly, at the time of the Fountain I had a list a mile long of escalation scams, most of them no one would have argued with and they weren't particularly hard to find; the hard part being to get the first power-1 rule in. Now I agree with you it's much, much tighter (with common definitions beating low powered rules, and more formal Secure systems, the clarity of MMI, etc). -Goethe
