Matt That's according to John's definition thereof. The rest of us do not necessarily agree with such a limited view. At this stage, it cannot be absolutely stated what qualia is. For example, mine is a lot more fuzzy and abstract in terms of autonomous, identifier signalling . And that is but one view of many regarding a feature of biology, which I contend could ultimately be transposed into a synthetically-framed platform as its own, unique version.
As argued by me before; unless a thermostat has a provable version of consciousness, it would seem highly unlikely to posses the property of qualified experience. I think we're still chewing at the bit here. This is something your research could've resolved rather easily. One needs to define a term first, before trying to apply it to the collective consciousness of AGI. As such, except for a battle to be right, I think this particular discussion mostly irrelevant to furthering the understanding of the morphogenetic property within AGI, which is directly implied via the topic heading. Qualia: I spend a lot of of my time trying to provide sensible input into this forum, to share, and and to learn, but the lack of general acknowledgement to my person and lack of sensible responses to my input is causing me to reconsider my active participation. At which point does it trigger a signal for me to stop wasting invaluable, professional time and rather examine alternative options towards constructive refinement of my knowledge base? I'm now setting the threshold to zero. Rob ________________________________ From: Matt Mahoney via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> Sent: Saturday, 22 September 2018 2:28 AM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] E=mc^2 Morphism Musings... (Intelligence=math*consciousness^2 ?) John answered the question. Qualia = sensory input compressed for communication. A thermostat has qualia because it compresses its input to one bit (too hot/too cold) and communicates it to the heater. On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 2:00 PM Jim Bromer via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com<mailto:agi@agi.topicbox.com>> wrote: > From: Matt Mahoney via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com<mailto:agi@agi.topicbox.com>> > > > > What is qualia? How do I know if monkeys, > > fish, insects, human embryos, robots, or thermostats have qualia and how > > would they behave differently if they did or did not. What is the test? That is an ontologically flawed question. Jim Bromer On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 6:34 AM John Rose <johnr...@polyplexic.com<mailto:johnr...@polyplexic.com>> wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Matt Mahoney via AGI > > <agi@agi.topicbox.com<mailto:agi@agi.topicbox.com>> > > > > You didn't answer my question. What is qualia? How do I know if monkeys, > > fish, insects, human embryos, robots, or thermostats have qualia and how > > would they behave differently if they did or did not. What is the test? > > > > Qualia = Compressed impressed samples symbolized for communication. How do > you even know that a fish is a fish? How do you prove that it exists? By > using qualia, and something with qualia originally symbolized it for > transmission into the human general consciousness. > > Do fish have qualia? Ans.: Do they communicate? Does a fish know that another > fish is a fish? I think so. They use another type of signaling and alphabet > than humans but their multi-agent signaling is coherent in relation to the > species group. If they did not have qualia the fish group would show > incoherence. > > You're more asking if you take a fish and isolate it how do you know if it > has qualia. > > I would ask you, if you are given a single lossily compressed sample of > sensory input how do you that the original uncompressed sample exists (or > existed)? How do you prove it? Maybe there is no original. Maybe it doesn't > exist therefore qualia would not exist. > > John > Artificial General Intelligence List<https://agi.topicbox.com/latest> / AGI / see discussions<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + participants<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery options<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9c94dabb0436859d-M36475a793ec2ac21cae9cadd> ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9c94dabb0436859d-M37c4f5fd843096521f82da97 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
