I was applying John's definition of qualia, not agreeing with it. My definition is qualia is what perception feels like. Perception and feelings are both computable. But the feelings condition you to believing there is something magical and mysterious about it.
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018, 8:44 AM Jim Bromer via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> wrote: > There is a distinction between the qualia of human experience and the > consciousness of what the mind is presenting. If you deny that you have the > kind of experience that Chalmers talks about then there is a question of > why are you denying it. So your remarks are relevant to AGI but not the way > you are talking about them. If Matt says qualia is not real then he is > saying that it is imaginary because I am pretty sure that he experiences > things in ways similar to Chalmers and a lot of other people I have talked > to. There are people who have claimed that I would not be able to create an > artificial imagination. That is nonsense. An artificial imagination is > easy. The complexity of doing that well is not. That does not mean however, > that the hard problem of consciousness is just complexity. One is doable in > computer programming, in spite of any skepticism, the other is not. > Jim Bromer > > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 10:03 AM John Rose <johnr...@polyplexic.com> > wrote: > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Jim Bromer via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> >> > >> > So John's attempt to create a definition of compression of something >> > complicated so that it can be communicated might be the start of the >> > development of something related to contemporary AI but the attempt to >> > claim that it defines qualia is so naïve that it is not really relevant >> to the subject >> > of AGI. >> >> >> Jim, >> >> Engineers make a box with lines on it and label it "magic goes here". >> >> Algorithmic information theory does the same and calls it compression. >> >> The word "subjective" is essentially the same thing. >> >> AGI requires sensory input. >> >> Human beings are compression engines... each being unique. >> >> The system of human beings is a general intelligence. >> >> How do people communicate? >> >> What are the components of AGI and how will they sense and communicate? >> >> They guys that came up with the term "qualia" left it as a mystery so >> it's getting hijacked 😊 This is extremely common with scientific >> terminology. >> >> BTW I'm not trying to define it universally just as something >> computationally useful in AGI R&D... but it's starting to seem like it's >> central. Thus IIT? Tononi or Tononi-like? Not sure... have to do some >> reading but prefer coming up with something simple and practical without >> getting too ethereal. TGD consciousness is pretty interesting though and a >> good exercise in some mind-bending reading. >> >> John >> > *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery > options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9c94dabb0436859d-M25560f3b75697b09afedbec2> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9c94dabb0436859d-Mbeef8263f87c229a2366c096 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
