As a matter of semantics and law. Corporations are people. They pay
taxes, they have rights, essentially all the constitutional rights.
Other than having a heartbeat, in a lawsuit or contract if you did not
already know, the other party could be human or a paper entity and you
would never know.
I agree that corporations should not be able to fund politics without
limit. But I remember the days of aggregating dozens of individual
doner checks and delivering them all to a congressman in on envelope.
Moreover PACs can do whatever they want with money, so what difference
does it make if PACs have such liberty?
*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 12:17 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
I agree with that. I do not in any way see how a corporation can be
considered "people". Doesn't that give the constituents behind a
corporation outsized influence (because corporations are made of people
who theoretically represent themselves)?
The way it is now (partly or largely because of Citizens United), money
equals speech. Except that if you don't have money, you get no voice.
That is fundamentally broken, and I don't see how we get out of that.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 11/20/2020 11:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Citizens United created a problem.
Primaries also create a big problem, whether for “safe” or contested
seats. Candidates must cater to the extreme wing of their party or
get “primaried” from the fringe. So if each party is 50%, and the
extreme left and right are 50% of that, you get the candidate that
appealed to the 25%. Even if center-right plus center-left is 50%,
they don’t matter, because of the 2 party system and the primary system.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck Macenski
*Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 1:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
I believe that many (most?) of them do care. I think they are caught
in a system where they are forced to play their tribal roles or risk
having no impact. I think that the influence of money in the
political system is one of the factors that has led us here.
That said, some of them have more integrity than others, some are
driven by the need to amass power (I consider that a character
flaw), and many (most?) voters are driven by emotion.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies
<m...@mailmt.com <mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> wrote:
Darin,
And yet here we sit harassing each other while they sit up there
in Washington collecting their nice large paychecks, pocketing
some lobbying money, having the best healthcare one can get,
patting each other on the back and not really doing anything
productive.
We are at the point where people from either side are willing to
destroy their lives over their party affiliation. Do you really
think any of them up there give a shit about us? Things will
never get fixed. Because if they fix it, there will be nothing
to rile up the sheep.
This is equivalent to the obnoxious guy at the sports bar
rooting for "his" team. When they win he'll be yelling in your
face "WE, did it". "WE", unless you ordering your 10th beer and
and downing your 20th chicken wing had a bearing on the game,
"YOU" had nothing to do with it.
These aren't OUR parties anymore. They no longer represent the
people. As long as they keep the people arguing among
themselves, we won't notice them accomplishing nothing.
Until we re-align the US and THEM from RED and BLUE back to the
people and OUR representatives we are doomed to relive this
every two years.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Friday, November 20, 2020, 12:46:23 PM, you wrote:
Every politician SHOULD break from their party if they feel a
different way about an issue. I don't believe in "falling in
line" for everything.
Good people think for themselves, not what their party's
platform is.
I'm fiscally a Republican but for human rights and equality, I'm
a Democrat.
Republicans have a very hard time showing they care about anyone
other than white men. They need to stop treating women, blacks,
gays, trans, different people as anything less than. And for
gosh sake, stop trying to bring religion into Government. Have
they not heard of separation of church and state?!?! Abortion
should not be a federal government issue.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 11:32 AM Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Mitt Romney is apparently willing to split from his party when
he feels strongly about something. Whether that means he's a
"RINO" or it means he has personal integrity seems to be a
matter of opinion. I'm trying to think of a Democratic
legislator who would break with party lines to agree with a
Republican position on something.....coming up blank. Is Romney
a Unicorn in that respect?
On 11/20/2020 12:22 PM, Robert wrote:
It would have been a really tough choice between Mitt and Biden
for me. Probably would have crossed to Mitt. Not that I am
necessarily a democrat but I really don't like what the
republican congress has become besides Mitt.
On 11/20/20 9:15 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I don't think anyone really knows for sure what he's worth, and
that's part of how it's so easy to build different narratives
about it.
He seems to have received around $400 million from his parents.
About a million from a trust fund and the rest from a variety of
revenue streams they set up for him. If he's worth $2.5 billion
today, that would imply something like 5% annual growth. That's
not an epic failure, but it's pretty modest. Except guesses
about his net worth range from $700mil to $7billion, and even he
is inconsistent in what he says about it. He's somewhere from
terrible, to ok, to really good and everyone gets to fill in the
blanks with their own version.
I don't hate him, but I am embarrassed of him. Every time I
hear him speak, something unbelievable comes out. His behavior
before and during his presidency demonstrates deep moral
failings. His messaging seems to be about symbolic emotional
cues without any regard to factuality (aka bullshitting). I
don't blame anybody for voting for him in 2016. When it was
Hillary Clinton against an unknown outsider, it's easy to say
"let's give this outsider a shot." I think at this point he's
made it very clear that he doesn't know what to do with his office.
I don't think Biden was anybody's first choice either, but if it
comes to the lesser of evils then Biden seems the lesser.
-Adam
On 11/20/2020 10:47 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
Robert,
You guys are right. He is the Jacques Clouseau of the business
world. Just fumbling and bumbling his way for the past 40
years. No one has caught on to his secret. He is just an idiot
that luckily is able to get bigger idiots to back him. He has
been cheating the IRS for years and years. Luckily for the IRS,
his tax returns will be released and all the armchair accounts
will be able to help the IRS do a proper audit.
I understand your pure hatred of him. He is not the most
likable person. But, please he is a business man. We have no
idea what his books look like or where his loans are. He has
undertaken some risky investments and deals over the years.
Some work, some don't, it is business. I guess successful is a
relative term.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Friday, November 20, 2020, 10:00:21 AM, you wrote:
Which would be the perfect example of the propaganda that has
propped him up for the last 40 years. Well now the chickens
will come home to roost. He has a billion dollars of loans to
renegotiate ( gee guess why he wants to be in charge of the
party, access to truckloads of cash ) and the IRS to convince
that his write offs were real now that they are going to go
under public review.. Could be interesting...
On 11/20/20 6:25 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
Trump was never a successful businessman, that is a myth. Mitt
yes, Donald no.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mark - Myakka
Technologies
*Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 8:03 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
Darin,
Trump was not presidential material, that is a fact. He is a
businessman not a politician. He had no idea on how government
worked. He was going in to the job with an outsiders view of
politics. He crashed the Washington wedding and they didn't
like it. He brought his friends and family. The man didn't
stand a chance. The left started calling for impeachment before
he was inaugurated. Hell some of them even made a big stink
that they weren't even going to show for his inauguration being
he was illegitimate.
Frankly the right was no help at the beginning either, they
didn't support him. He surrounded himself with a bunch of
outsiders that didn't know the unwritten rules of Washington.
The media does lean left. They were embarrassed, they told us
for months Hillary was going to be the next President. They
hate Trump and Trump hates them. Once the media figured out how
to push his buttons, it was just a big game for them.
He was a lone wolf with no support at all. Seemed like everyone
was against him, except for the people that voted for him.
Let's assume he was the worst president ever, one soul away from
being the devil himself. Seems like we survived. Almost 75M
people voted to keep him in office. You can dismiss that as
cult or a bunch of uneducated rednecks, but is is still 75M
people. Contrary to popular belief, he did do some good
things. HBC got multi-year funding. He didn't start any new wars.
I was listening to a Obama doing an interview yesterday. He was
talking about the hard time he had in office with the birther
stuff. He made a very interesting comment. He said that some
people didn't know him. If they only listened to FOX news, they
only knew a caricature of him. The exact same thing can be said
about Trump.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Thursday, November 19, 2020, 11:58:10 PM, you wrote:
The only reason the media ripped on trump is because he was a
disgrace to the high office of President. He made a joke of our
country. He bullied, tweeted, and lied for his entire term.
If a Democrat acted the same way trump did, I would fully expect
all news to rip on them too. Trump further divided our country,
shit on our allies, and shared hateful conspiracy theories.
He craves attention, refuses to lose, and any time he tried to
do something good he would ruin it with some tweet. He fired
more staff than any other president in history. He's paranoid,
rude, and holds grudges.
He shows no empathy for anyone. He doesn't show compassion. He
doesn't show love. He doesn't forgive. He doesn't forget. He
doesn't lead.
He never talks about his family. He expects loyalty and for
people to bend the knee.
I've never been more embarrassed for our country when he was
elected. We needed a politician in office, not a celebrity. He
rocked the boat but not in a good way.
Give me a stable republican and I may vote for them if they care
about every American, not just their base.
Sidenote: I was grocery shopping tonight and someone was wearing
a shirt that said: Trump 2020. FUCK YOUR FEELINGS
Real classy trump supporter. Wearing a shirt like that at our
local Hyvee with kids and families shopping. I'm embarrassed
people think it's ok to wear things like that. 1st amendment
allows them to but it's still disrespectful.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 10:20 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies
<m...@mailmt.com <mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> wrote:
It doesn't matter who won, the outcome is the same. All of us
should have been intelligent enough to predict this. The only
way this would have ended well for the country would have been a
landslide for Biden. Not saying Biden is good for the country,
but it was the only chance we may have had not to deal with this
bullshit.
If Trump won in a landslide, mainstream media would just
continue with the non-stop bashing for another four years. He
would have been declared an illegitimate president again. The
story would be the same as last time "look at the polls, no way
he could have won, must of cheated". We would be watching
cities burn right now.
If roles were reversed and Trump had the slim lead, the Biden
camp would be doing the same thing the Trump camp is doing now.
Do you really think Biden would have conceded. The only
difference, is the mainstream media would have been digging deep
to find each and every "fake" vote for Trump. They would be
working overtime. Every story would be assumed true and not
debated. No winner would be declared yet.
When the counting is done, Trump will end up with almost 75M
votes. That is more that 10M more than Hillary got in 2016.
About 12M more people voted for Trump this time around. More
minorities voted for Trump this time around.
Did you really think Trump's base would just accept the losing
outcome? Did you really think Biden's base would have accepted
a losing outcome? On the plus side the scales tipped to the
left, so at least we aren't seeing the riots.
This election will never be accepted by half the country, just
like the last election was never accepted by half the country.
Only difference is at least on the nightly news I won't have to
listen to 100% Trump bashing day in and day out trying to scare
me straight. It was getting depressing. Everything was bad
news. I swear if Trump found the cure for cancer, it would have
been spun as bad news.
Come February, everything will be reported as unicorns and
rainbows. Life in the old USA will be great. There will be no
issues. Fox News will move right center, I don't think they
will be as hard on Biden as CNN was on Trump. Social media will
be where all the Trump supports go. But they will be banned
form the main sites and live on the fringe.
The left has the ball. All these problems that have been
drilled into our heads for the past 4 years are now their issue
to fix. They have 2 years to convince us they can do a better
job. Both the house and senate majorities are so thin, either
one can flip in two years.
Finally, it really doesn't matter. Our daily lives will not
change that much. Sure we'll probably have to deal with Net
Neutrality again. Maybe some type of national tax on Internet
service is in the future. Maybe another healthcare shake up.
Maybe there will be some half-assed legislation on gun control
or immigration, but no real fix. The precedent was set in the
last 4 years, every executive action will be taken to court.
But we'll adapt and continue moving on. We always do.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Thursday, November 19, 2020, 10:23:07 PM, you wrote:
Steve,
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/wayne-circuit-judge-dismisses-lawsuit-against-city-of-detroit-alleging-election-fraud
Please read this article and the judge's 13 page ruling on what
you claim is fraud. You and trump have been shot down again.
Judge's are denying these suits left and right, some of them
getting quite heated in their opinions suggesting they shouldn't
even be wasting their breath on these baseless claims.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:01 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
not going to play your game. I watched the mutt put up the
cardboard and stand there like a gimp. everyone watched when
they tried to serve the judges order and were still denied
access, facts are simply that, facts.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/05/media/detroit-windows-covered-ballots-vote-center/index.html
except the "protesters" were poll watcher, your team cant even
lie well
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/11/05/philadelphia-court-decision-poll-watchers-now-allowed-within-6-feet-of-ballot-counting-at-pennsylvania-convention-center/
your kind will say that binoculars are good enough. odd that
judges ruled on something that didnt happen, are you saying the
judges lied?
just because you dont want it to be true doesnt make something
"debunked". Just admit there were issues, present solutions. 4
years spent pushing a russian narrative that was literally
debunked and always offered without evidence (hint, there was
none). pick a single narrative and run with said narrative,
across the board. much like the elder cruelty of putting rudy
and joe in the spotlight
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 8:21 PM Darin Steffl
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
Steve,
Cite your sources that poll watchers weren't allowed to observe.
You won't be able to because in every case so far, there have
been poll watchers inside watching the count in every precinct.
You only saw some angry trump supporters standing outside in
Detroit trying to get in when there were already 200+ republic
poll watchers already inside. They put up cardboard because the
people outside were being distracting.
Every court filing that has been filed so far has proven that
poll watchers were not kept out. Only "extras" that showed up
were blocked because you don't need any more inside a building
than already existed.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 8:12 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Oh sure. We are now using some schmoe in a stocking cap for "news"?
Part of the reason we are in the situation we are in is that we
pay more attention to clowns than they deserve.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 4:21 PM justsumname
<unixday...@gmail.com <mailto:unixday...@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBdfxJdlvcE
It is getting interesting, and this election thing is still far
from over.
--
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
lol, they just elected a guy president with the same cruelty, so
thats not really much of a thing anymore
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 1:43 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
It’s cruel of people to keep putting Rudy in the public eye when
clearly he’s not all there anymore, I don’t know if it’s
dementia or what, but he needs to be sitting on a porch
somewhere playing checkers, not making a fool of himself for the
world to see. Of course he’s always been a little off, look at
his marriage history. I assume since he was a lawyer and mayor
he wasn’t always like this. Or maybe he was. Again, the
marriage history.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
I dont know what happened to that guy. hopefully when this is
said and done we go the way of canada on electronic voting.
then we put cameras recording the count tables. Golden and no
need for recounts or weird people like this team of lunatics
having crazy press conferences. I think the media sent their
interns instead of reporters
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:35 PM Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Guliani told me I could Google Dominion and find out that it's
owned by Venezuelans. My Google seems to work differently from his.
On 11/19/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
jesus christ this broad just referred to themselves as an "elite
strikeforce team"
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:00 PM Bill Prince
<part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry Steve. You lost me at the bakery.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 11/19/2020 9:51 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
While id like my guy to come out on top magically, this press
conference presents more like a bad SNL skit
--
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