Kind of like the “not for individual resale” packages. But giving them away with something else is OK.
> On Aug 17, 2020, at 8:52 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Here's a case where a 3rd party worked in our favor: > > A vending machine company sells these fancy juke boxes to bars. They download > songs over the Internet so they have a library of millions of songs you can > pick from without actually having to store millions of songs. The bar needs > an internet connection for this to work of course. Several of these bars had > a recurring "issue" where the Jukebox would stop working and they'd call the > vending machine company who would then call us and find out the bill for > Internet wasn't paid. So the vending machine company took over the Internet > bills for several of these bars. > > From my perspective this was a win-win. The vending machine company pays the > Internet bill reliably and on time every month. The bar owner always calls > them for support anyway, and barely knows who we are. The vending machine co > has to collect on their service contract anyway, so collecting on the > Internet at the same time wasn't a big deal to them, but now they don't have > to take the call about the jukebox "not working" due to the Internet bill not > being paid. > > .....lots of other times the 3rd party seller was more trouble than they were > worth, but in this particular case we were better off having them in the loop. > > >> On 8/17/2020 8:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> It means what the contract says it means, but there's probably at least 3 >> issues: >> >> 1) Taking away potential customers. >> >> 2) Whether it is shared/oversubscribed service (either residential or >> commercial), or DIA which by definition is dedicated bandwidth that you can >> use 100% 24x7 if you want. >> >> 3) Who has the end customer relationship, for purposes of AUP/TOS, >> maintenance, etc. I will no longer sell through middlemen, where I don't >> have the end customer relationship. If someone wants a commission of some >> sort for bringing me the sale, that's different. But if the customer wants >> to open a trouble ticket, I want them to call me, not some reseller. If we >> see a violation of our terms of service, or get a court order from LEA >> regarding customer's use of the connection, or an abuse report, or we need >> to do maintenance or a repair, I want a name and number to call. If the >> connection is down, I want an actual site contact to find out if power is >> on, etc. If we do a dispatch, I want a contact for someone who will meet us >> at the site. >> >> We've all heard stories of WISPs who get calls about an outage or lousy >> service from customers they don't recognize, only to discover that a >> customer is reselling their service to several neighbors. You go to a site >> like speedtest.net and it tells you the provider, not the reseller, so >> that's who you badmouth for having bad service. Even if it's the guy with >> the Linksys router in the Tupperware tub who is reselling the service. >> >> Comcast has had cases where some guy orders one residential cable connection >> in each of several dozen MDUs, and then goes into business selling that >> service to the other residents, at a rate below Comcast's retail rate. So >> they don't get any other customers in those buildings. Needless to say, >> they got their lawyers involved. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Adam Moffett >> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 7:02 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What is “reselling”? >> >> I think if you provide some significant part of the infrastructure required >> to reach that end user then you're not reselling, you are just the next tier >> in the chain of service providers. The ongoing use of the concepts of "Tier >> 1" through "Tier 3" providers supports that notion. >> >> I've always thought of reselling as being a middle man in the sales channel >> without putting in significant last mile infrastructure. At one time we >> were reselling Verizon DSL. We had a connection to them and they would >> somehow L2 bridge the DSL traffic from our customers' lines over an ATM >> circuit to our office. We provided AAA and L3 connectivity to the Internet, >> but they provided the entire last mile connection. If you paid them more >> per unit they would do the entire thing from the house to the Internet and >> all you did was push money around (and take the support calls). Those are >> clear reseller scenarios. >> >> To Chuck's comment about the AUP: I would definitely disallow the first >> practice unless someone is paying appropriately for a Tier2 service. I >> don't actually care if they do the second scenario. If they want to buy my >> service and mark it up $20 and call it their own then I 100% don't care >> (MSP's do that all the time, in fact). I'm getting paid either way. I >> might even be inclined to encourage that if the middle man is competent. >> >> -Adam >> >> >>> On 8/17/2020 6:54 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> Define “reselling” a circuit. >>> >>> Obviously getting a connection and sticking customers on the provider’s IP >>> addresses would be reselling without a doubt. >>> >>> Is running a tunnel over a circuit back to a data center and sticking >>> customer traffic in the tunnel reselling? I would think not as the only >>> thing the connection is carrying is my VPN traffic. >>> >>> So now further down the rabbit hole - if the provider supports BGP and I’m >>> using my IP addresses - am I “reselling” the provider’s service or mine? > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
