For a house, yes I would install the gas ones.
Way back around 1965-1967 my family lived in Buenos Aires and the house we rented had the gas ones on the wall in each room that needed hot water. Pretty neat, you’d turn on the faucet and instantly the gas flame would come on, and you’d have not water in seconds. Whereas in my current house with water heaters in the basement it takes way longer than that, plus you’re wasting water, and also gas or electricity keeping that 50 gallon tank of water hot all the time. But running a gas line and a vent for a gas water heater seems like too much work for just a hand washing station in the shop. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:48 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID My plumber says the large electric tankless aren't worth having. I have 2 gas units in series at my house. They work together to sense demand and fire up when needed. We have the little tankless ones (3) at my shop and they work well. On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:46 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote: On the smaller units, if you want hotter water your turn down the flow. From: Colin Stanners Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 2:27 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID I was looking into tankless water heaters for some personal projects... electricity really doesn't get you much heat compared to gas options. At standard faucet flow rate (2GPM) the below would have a temperature rise of ~15-20 degrees F. Real heat requirements are more in the range of 240V 60A+. On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 2:37 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote: 120 volts 30 amps $153 Only needs 10 gauge wire. <https://www.zoro.com/bosch-electric-tankless-water-heater-110120v-us3/i/G2958252/#specifications> https://www.zoro.com/bosch-electric-tankless-water-heater-110120v-us3/i/G2958252/#specifications You can do it Steve. From: ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 1:35 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID I put one in on bathroom sink at a central office once that was the smallest one I have ever seen. 240 volts 15 amps. https://www.zoro.com/bosch-electric-tankless-water-heater-208240v-us9/i/G2203381/ $145 40 amps. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 1:24 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID Home Depot lists Rheem units under $300 but requires a pretty hefty circuit. I see some smaller ones at Zoro that would probably still be adequate for a single sink. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 2:18 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID They are cheap and easy. The electric ones. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 12:59 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID When this is all over, maybe consider a point-of-use on-demand hot water heater for the garage sink. The rest of the world has used them forever, not sure why they have only recently become popular here. Even just for washing the bird poop off reclaimed radios, a little hot water helps. For washing hands, I don’t think hot water is mandatory. I like the foaming hand soaps in the pump bottles, if the only water was cold, I’d still wash my hands. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 1:32 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID Thats what I mean by lysol stocked, it will be sprayed down. Recovered equipment will be placed in quarantine. I dont even know if we can legally shut down the bathroom, but the purpose is to get the guys in and then out the door, poop at home, come to work, grab gear, grab van and go. We dont have hot water, so wash station is about pointless, but they can wash in the sink basin in the garage though. (we dont have hot water because there is so little use and our facility is so large the old plumbing will destroy a standard hot water heater in short time.Its a constant battle keeping the urinal valve cleared. we do have a bathroom with hot water near the living quarters, but it requires traversing the whole place) On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:20 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: No bathroom seems cruel, it’s not like you can stop and use the bathroom at a fast food place anymore. Do you have a sink in the garage area for washing hands, with soap and paper towels? I still view handwashing as my #1 protection against contracting or spreading the virus. I guess liberal use of alcohol based hand sanitizer would be the backup plan. I know the bathroom sounds like a risk for contamination, but I’m not sure that’s true. Wash your hands before and after, use paper towels, and the sink and toilet can be sanitized pretty easily with some Clorox spray cleaner. Getting spread by clothes seems a very low probability scenario. Before I worried about that, I’d be wiping equipment down with disinfecting wipes before leaving them for the tech or getting them back, since those are hard surfaces touched with your hands. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 1:01 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID So got an update Anybody curious, this is for Illinois. IDPH hotline 18008893931 option 4 I was in contact with a positive case but have no symptoms Continue normal activity if contact was not within 6 feet for more than a few minutes If there are no symptoms and there was not contact within 6 feet for more than a few minutes an employer CANNOT facilitate an asymptomatic test The followup on the customer, Im not so mad now. He works in a office where a lady tested positive, close proximity. So he was an asymptomatic precautionary test, he met the criteria because he was within 6 feet for more than a few minutes. This place had another positive last week supposedly. thankfully they are closed for sanitation. We will be avoiding people that work there. Given the issue, we are closing all our communal areas, no coffee pot, not fridge, no restroom use. Primary installer will operate out of the garage and only use the garage door, he wont enter the work area. hes set up for remote now and will be on call when hes not actively on jobs. We would send the work truck home but he doesnt have a garage and we are already seeing an increase in vehicular burglary. Owner will stay remote. Other tech will be remote with his van in his garage. There is a large workbench in the garage where inventory will be available for resupply. It will be lysol stocked at night. Im a dirty bastard so ill be using the primary workspace to do builds and all that. if im not building or hanging, ill be home. I will have techs meet me on build sites as required. We will have as minimal contact as is realistic. If its just 911 guy for tower work, they wont leave the vehicle. We will go back to me humping stuff up grain legs and towers for a while if its reasonable weight. Thank god we dont have to shut stuff down for 2 weeks every time some pauper approaches us. Techs were given clear instruction that if the customer comes outside, they are to get back in the work truck and if customer wont stop approaching, just to leave the site, we will recover equipment later On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 10:39 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote: You can pick your friends. And you can pick your nose. But you can’t pick your friend’s nose. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 12, 2020, at 8:07 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: Up your nose with a rubber hose. -Vinny Barbarino From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 8:43 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID Doesn't matter what you touch as long as you wash your hands after any potential contact. You could stick your finger up an infected person's nose, and as long as you washed your hands, you are cool. I am not advocating that (just in case someone misinterprets what I'm saying). bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 4/12/2020 2:56 PM, Robert wrote: Depends upon what he touched on the outside. Anything the customer may have sneezed/coughed/touched spit even took a deep heavy breath on could have enough of this nasty if he didn't immediately sanitize after touching and getting back into his vehicle and spreading it around. Touch his face with an infected hand/glove and he's on the merry-go-round.. Touch his truck and someone else touches it.. Less likely but possible. 3-7 DAYS on metal surfaces is really bad if not sanitized. Door bells are a bad thing.. Gates are a bad thing.. On 4/12/20 2:15 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: If Steve’s tech really never went inside and came no closer than 10 feet to anyone, do you think the tech should still quarantine for 14 days? From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 4:04 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID This is exactly why our company stopped all in person customer interactions on March 16th. Customers lie or don’t know they even have it, then your tech gets infected along with their whole family, then the rest of your crew. NO ONE SHOULD BE GOING INTO ANYONE ELSES HOUSE FOR A COUPLE MONTHS. We are only doing service calls if we can fix it from the outside. Internet is not worth someone dying over! -Sean On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 2:17 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote: Im so pissed right now. Tech had a No Line Of Site wednesday. apparently customer got tested on, positive result today. My guess would be he was symptomatic wednesday if it was bad enough for a test the next day. I fin out he was already on quarantine wednesday, im going to probably lose my stuff. He answered negative to the questionnaire. The tech has been anal about this since day one. We went no touch last monday officially. he had no contact closer than 10 feet. Never went inside. sanitizes constantly. But we have no choice but to go down a tech for 14 day quarantine. We are closed tomorrow for a video-conference to regroup. Tuesday we will probably be sanitizing everything. there is little to no chance the tech caught it. he is writing down arrival to exit to help him remember if there is any chance of contamination. We have to try to get the health department to give us clear guidance on company operations over the next 2 weeks. If this guy lied on the questionnaire ...... Ill probably end up in jail. We have too much going on to be a man down, much less a whole company down. If he got my installer sick, and lied on the questionnaire, kunkgflu will not be his primary concern anymore On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 2:18 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: You can get around the paywall using the Brave browser. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 4/12/2020 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Interesting long article in today’s New York Times Sunday magazine on the case of James Cai, a physician’s assistant and the first coronavirus case in New Jersey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, NYT, biased liberal elite east coast mainstream media fake news … get over it, this article is not political. I am however reading the print version and while I Googled for a link to the online version it might be behind a paywall, or maybe they will let you read a limited number of articles free, I don’t know. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/magazine/first-coronavirus-patient-new-jersey.html The story leaves you both hopeful and pessimistic. He got some treatments other than what the hospital wanted to use, but only through extensive intervention from doctor friends and people who read about him online. He did recover. Some of the nonstandard treatments may have worked. But you or I probably wouldn’t have gotten them. You realize how difficult it is to get something like remdesivir given the approvals needed. And the push to intubate rather than have you breathe the virus on hospital staff, even if it’s maybe not the best treatment. And how doctors and hospitals were slow to realize this disease was different. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 10:43 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID Because the fda doesnt approve without the trials, to avoid the liability. It's only approved off label use, hence, zero liability On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 10:12 PM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote: There is an actual mechanism for the FDA to avoid the liability, it's baked into the system now. It's how the friends got the treatment approved for their daughters. On 4/11/20 4:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote: The FDA cant take the liability of "approving" anything without full trials. I dont blame them. We let everyone sue everyone, we did it to ourselves. Same reason Fauci uses code words to say the malaria drug works without saying it works or setting cnn off by agreeing with potus. On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 3:27 PM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote: I can't believe I am still hearing about "trials" on the pre-existing ebola treatment. Doctors are talking about 2/3's of test patients recovering after 2-3 days after administration. Seems like that would be a good enough "trial" to start massively treating patients instead of 20% survival.. What the heck is the real story? I know someone personally who fought the FDC to get a treatment that extended their daughters lives for 5 years and it was a nightmare. The conspiracy part of me wants to scream... On 4/11/20 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > Yeah, I am starting to get annoyed at the obsession with having enough > ventilators, describing them as "life saving equipment", leaving the > impression that most can be saved if you can just put them on a ventilator. > Yet stats out of NYC are 80% don't survive to come off the ventilator. And > you have to wonder if the 20% who do, did the vent actually save them, or > they would have survived even with less aggressive treatment. > > The news coverage leaves you thinking most of the ICU patients will be saved > if there's enough ventilators. When in reality doctors and nurses are > risking their own lives to treat ICU wards full of intubated, sedated > patients most of whom will die because they don't have an effective > treatment. Not a pretty story, probably why nobody wants to talk about it. > > There are trials of various treatments going on, it would be great if some of > them turned out to work. Not necessarily a cure or a vaccine, but a therapy > so less people die. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On > Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 1:57 PM > To: AFMUG <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > > Subject: [AFMUG] OT: More on COVID > > > Saw this in our local paper this morning. It's interesting to me because it's > bringing to light the fact that COVID-19 is apparently not what people are > dying from, it's the secondary ARDS-like (Accute Respiratory Distress > Syndrome) condition. There is also some debate within the medical community > whether ventilators are helping or hurting. Maybe what they need to do is > just supply oxygen. > > If this link doesn't work for you, I can email the article. > > https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/11/when-coronavirus-kills-its-like-death-by-drowning-and-doctors-disagree-on-best-treatment/ > > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Lewis Bergman 325-439-0533 Cell
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