I’m clearly not cut out for any of this. I get vertigo just driving over an interstate overpass on a foggy day.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters Tight circling while waiting for a clearance followed by a rapid acceleration and climb is a textbook recipe for vertigo and spatial disorientation. I’m willing to bet the descent was opposite the direction he was initially circling. Vertigo is nasty in IFR, especially when it’s been some time since it’s happened to you. The media is always idiotic when it comes to flying - I don’t expect much from them. Mark On Feb 24, 2020, at 2:50 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: This is what I fumble around in when I can’t see a thing outside: <image[1].png> From: Steven Kenney Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 12:17 PM To: af Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters You'd never catch me flying in a chopper IFR unelss I had some sort of terrain following radar or radar altimeter. Too many wind towers, powerlines, and those pesky telecom towers .. I've flown with real chopper pilots and they always always are concerned with towers even though they need to stay above 500ft. Imagine fumbling around in this while you can't see a thing outside. <https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.jetphotos.com%2Ffull%2F2%2F50691_1164128496.jpg&f=1&nofb=1> -- Steven Kenney Network Operations Manager WaveDirect Telecommunications http://www.wavedirect.net (519)737-WAVE (9283) _____ From: "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > To: "af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 2:04:32 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters The Sikorsky S-76B is a big bird. Not cheap. Maybe 10 to 13 million depending on condition. I suspect this has some parallels to the thing with Bill Graham 20 years ago or something. I think Graham pressured the pilot to fly even though the conditions were not very good (awful at that time). They hit power lines in low visibility. Helicopter pilots can sometimes cut corners. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 2/24/2020 10:47 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: Doubt it. It was poor decision after poor decision. Should never have flown. Mist rolling in from the hills could obscure things below 1 mile easily. Choppers and mountains don't mix with all the updrafts and unpredictable wind patterns. ESPECIALLY downdrafts. (I like to fly the Huey in DCS and its a pain to land with a slight downdraft) Most choppers don't have much to navigate IFR other than an NDB if they are lucky they have a VOR which would require IFR and some preplanning. Especially in mountains. I'd assume since he was rich as hell that they'd have a GPS capable nav air like a GNS 530 (pretty cheap) so it would have some nav aids but not necessarily terrain loaded. It was just dumb to press your luck in an aircraft not designed for IFR "on the fly" -- Steven Kenney Network Operations Manager WaveDirect Telecommunications http://www.wavedirect.net <http://www.wavedirect.net/> (519)737-WAVE (9283) _____ From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:03:43 PM Subject: [AFMUG] OT Kobe and helicopters OK, so I am bored. Hit delete. The pilot of the helicopter is getting trashed because he asked for SVFR (special VFR) and got denied on a prior flight. He proceeded anyway. On the crash flight he asked for VFR flight following. They denied it due to his altitude. I have had that happen to me dozens of times. It does not indicate anything other than radar can only see so low. 91.155 A helicopter may be operated clear of clouds if operated at a speed that allows the pilot adequate opportunity to see any air traffic or obstruction in time to avoid a collision. 91.157 This part allows helicopters to fly SVFR even when flight visibility is below 1 statute mile when required for other aircraft. This part also allows helicopters to operate SVFR at night while other aircraft would have to be IFR certified with an instrument rated pilot. This part allows helicopters to take off or land a helicopter even when the ground visibility is below 1 statute mile. On the prior flight people are using to claim he was a bad pilot, he was proceeding low and slow as allowed but he was in a particular area of controlled airspace that required permission to do so. Not that it was reckless or dangerous. His only other option was trying to file what is called a “pop up” IFR flight plan. I have had to do that before when the weather changed. It is a pain, takes some radio time to do but it is a legal way forward. Or he could have found a place to land perhaps. He got busted doing what was probably the safest, but not legal, thing to do. I don’t think this calls his skills into question. The ship was flying but doing a rapid turning descent for some time before the crash. Either he got really bad vertigo or he was attempting to autorotate due to a mechanical failure. I don’t think he got vertigo. When you are in the clouds you use the autopilot if you have one. He had one. He was a high time IFR rated pilot. If you hit clouds you mind switches to using the instruments and getting yourself out of trouble or staying out of trouble. . This was a Sikorsky S-76B Very large helicopter. Has an auto pilot and almost certainly had an auto hover feature due to the fact that it was used for search and rescue in a prior life. You can simply stop them and hover if you find yourself uncertain of your position. Maybe he had a heart attack. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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