Yup, we use Base Clearcas in a multisite environment. This is why we are finally dumping InstallShield in favor of WiX 3.0. We are using .NET 3.5/ Linq to XML to create an extensible tool that uses visual designers to manipulate the underlying WiX files. So far we've written several screens and it's working very well for us. It feels like we are using InstallShield but with the full power of WiX.
--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Wilson, Phil <phil.wil...@wonderware.com> wrote: > From: Wilson, Phil <phil.wil...@wonderware.com> > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 vs InstallAware 9 > To: "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." > <wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 1:19 PM > Agreed - I have used ClearCase with > branching and merging, and it's an awful experience with > Wise or InstallShield project files. > > Phil Wilson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@deploymentengineering.com] > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:16 AM > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 vs > InstallAware 9 > > Phil- > > That's not really the problem. If you understand > windows installer tables, comparing one version of > InstallShield is not optimal but also not impossible. > > The real problem is that > > 1) changes are spread out in the document per where they > are in the cables. If you add a file you can expect to > see a row in say components, modulecomponents, directoy, > file and so on.   In WiX you can expect to > see a new component and file element right together in one > neat spot. > > 2) InstallShield uses silly shortname truncation patterns > which are incremented in a serial fashion for primary > keys.  For example > > Microsoft.Deployment.WindowsInstaller.dll might become > Microsoft1 > Microsoft.Deployment.WindowsInstaller.Linq.dll might mecome > Microsoft2 > > The real problem is when you need to do any kind of branch > and merging. If I create a series of feature branches > and add similar named files on each branch I will come back > with a merge that is impossible due to primary key > collisions. > > Where I work we have 3 installation developers supporting > 200+ developers. We ship over 15,000 files from about > 1000 merge modules with commonality between a dozen products > deriving from countless feature, integration, release and > maintenance branches.  Branching and merging is > our life and InstallShield simply can't hack it. > > With a little deterministic behavior in creating Id's and > Guid's, WiX simply rocks at handling it. > > > Christopher Painter, Author of Deployment Engineering Blog > Have a hot tip, know a secret or read a really good thread > that deserves attention? E-Mail Me > > > --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Wilson, Phil <phil.wil...@wonderware.com> > wrote: > > > From: Wilson, Phil <phil.wil...@wonderware.com> > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 > vs InstallAware 9 > > To: "General discussion for Windows Installer XML > toolset." <wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > > Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 12:17 PM > > Somebody mentioned this before I > > think, but maybe InstallShield's project files are > still in > > an incomprehensible format. This means that if you use > a > > source control tool then the ability to see the > difference > > between one version and another is impossible. Can > you > > imagine a development environment where you can't see > the > > changes between one version of the source and > another? > > > > > > Phil Wilson > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Blair [mailto:os...@live.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 9:48 AM > > To: 'General discussion for Windows Installer XML > > toolset.' > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 vs > > InstallAware 9 > > > > You have your choice of manually supplying the > information > > or using a tool > > to extract it. > > > > To understand WiX (from an authoring point of view) > it > > helps to > > remember/realize that MSIs are databases that describe > a > > set of states for > > the computer to be in, and a Windows Installer > transaction > > consists of the > > Windows Installer service determining the difference > > between the current > > state and the desired state, and then scripting and > > performing the actions > > needed to transition the computer to that desired > state. > > > > Since it is a database, and since databases can be > modeled > > with XML, and > > since XML can be much more source-code-control > friendly > > than binary files, > > an XML schema has been developed to express MSI > databases > > that has evolved > > into the current WiX schema (Windows Installer XML is > how > > WiX got its name). > > The C/C++ development model which allows for > distributed > > development was > > also employed, and as such there are source files > (.wxs), > > include files > > (.wxi), object (intermediate) and pdb (.wixpdb) and > other > > related file > > formats, and various tools used to both > compile/link/bind > > Windows Installer > > files (.msi, .msp, .mst) and to generate WiX sources > > (whether from > > decompiling WI files or from extracting information > from > > files/directories/etc.). Further the tools can be > extended > > to improve > > integration with your build environments/work-flow > > processes and/or to > > provide added convenience to authoring > constructs/actions > > that better > > support your scenarios (be they web app installation > or > > OracleDB > > population). > > > > Kind of like the way that C++ gives you most of the > power > > of the platform > > and doesn't prevent you from hanging yourself with > that > > power, WiX does the > > same. It does try to encourage and educate best > practices > > (with varying > > degrees of success) and doesn't try to hide the > platform > > from the developer > > (like more "visual" tools tend to do in every platform > they > > support), but it > > has always been anticipated and encouraged that others > will > > supply add-ons > > to WiX to better meet the needs of the community > (similar > > to the model of > > the Visual Studio third-party add-ons that add power > and > > productivity to > > users of that IDE/environment). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Matt Walker [mailto:matt.wal...@synergis.com] > > > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 5:44 AM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML > toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 vs > > InstallAware 9 > > > > I will check out WiX, but briefly, and this may have > been > > touched on, how > > does WiX populate these tables for both libraries and > > assemblies? > > > > Some of this I'm sure will be clearer when I take a > look, > > but does it > > extract reg information upon a files add to the > > installation or is there > > some extraction that needs to be done on the part of > the > > install developer > > then import into the WiX install template? > > > > Thanks all for the information so far!! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Blair [mailto:os...@live.com] > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:46 PM > > To: chr...@deploymentengineering.com; > > 'General discussion for Windows > > Installer XML toolset.' > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 vs > > InstallAware 9 > > > > WiX allows the use of either the COM tables or the > Registry > > table and > > exposes both easily enough, but the default preference > in > > the toolset is for > > the Registry tables. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@deploymentengineering.com] > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:51 AM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML > toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 vs > > InstallAware 9 > > > > The biggest difference between InstallShield and WiX > in > > registration ( > > assuming you follow best practices and don't use > SelfReg / > > CA's ) is the > > use of the registry tables in WiX versus certain COM > tables > > in > > InstallShield. > > > > Both tools have the capability to extract COM from > dll's > > and it's a bit of a > > spooky process with both sometimes.  For > me I > > have the ability to use a > > number of extraction tools and profiling tools when > it > > doesn't work to > > ultimately get the right answer on what the COM should > be > > and from there I > > can author that information in either tool. > > All said, they are both good > > but I like WiX a little bit better in it's use of the > > registry table. > > > > > > Christopher Painter, Author of Deployment Engineering > Blog > > Have a hot tip, know a secret or read a really good > thread > > that deserves > > attention? E-Mail Me > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Matt Walker <matt.wal...@synergis.com> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Matt Walker <matt.wal...@synergis.com> > > > Subject: [WiX-users] FW: InstallShield 2010 > vs > > InstallAware 9 > > > To: "General discussion for Windows Installer > XML > > toolset." > > <wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:38 PM > > > One of the big issues I've had with > > > InstallShield and other products is > > > proper registration of files. Most of the > time this > > > area was OK, but > > > there were times when one or two files would not > > register > > > causing me to > > > create Custom Actions to do so. > > > > > > How would this be handled in WiX and is it > reliable? > > > > > > *** > > > > > > I wonder what conversion time would be like to > switch > > to > > > WiX after being > > > used to InstallShield/Wise for all these years. > > > > > > I'm planning a rebuild of all of our installs > > regardless of > > > the product > > > selected anyway, but I wonder what the WiX > learning > > curve > > > is like. > > > > > > What are some of the requirements or necessities > for > > > becoming an adept > > > WiX user? > > > > > > *** > > > > > > What about Web and IIS Stuff - go to go/easy > with > > WiX? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Matt Walker > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:18 PM > > > To: 'General discussion for Windows Installer > XML > > > toolset.' > > > Subject: RE: [WiX-users] InstallShield 2010 vs > > InstallAware > > > 9 > > > > > > Is there any kind of UI with WiX? I like > > > InstallShield because it takes > > > care of he nuts and bolts for you yet allows > tweaking > > where > > > needed. > > > > > > Is WiX scripting based or should you be a heavy > duty > > > developer to use > > > it? > > > > > > I guess I can download and take a look. > > > > > > Any further info on this or the IS 2010 Vs IA 9 > > comparison > > > is more than > > > welcomed. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brian Simoneau [mailto:bsimon...@freedomscientific.com] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:06 PM > > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML > > toolset. > > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] InstallShield 2010 vs > > InstallAware > > > 9 > > > > > > My company was using InstallShield before > switching > > to > > > WiX. I have > > > never used InstallAware, but the only advice I > can > > give is > > > to use WiX. > > > It's free and can do anything that the > commercial > > products > > > do, sometimes > > > better. > > > > > > -Brian Simoneau > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Matt Walker [mailto:matt.wal...@synergis.com] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:10 AM > > > To: wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > Subject: [WiX-users] InstallShield 2010 vs > > InstallAware 9 > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group and was pointed here by an > > individual > > > from whom > > > I've received valuable assistance on many .NET, > > install > > > related topics > > > over the past several years. I know this is > a Wix > > > users group, but I'm > > > hoping someone can give me some insight, > guidance, > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > We as a company are looking to switch our > install > > build > > > product. The > > > company whose product we use has undergone > several > > company > > > takeovers/changes recently and it doesn't look > like > > the > > > development > > > effort is there for this particular product. > > > > > > > > > > > > We've been focusing on InstallShield 2010 and > > InstallAware > > > 9. I've used > > > InstallShield products in the past and never > really > > had any > > > major > > > problems to speak of. IS seemed fairly easy > to use > > > and suited all of > > > our needs. This seems to be the case with > > > InstallShield 2010. > > > > > > > > > > > > InstallAware is a tool of a different kind as it > > appears to > > > be primarily > > > script based but does have a Visual interface as > > > well. It might be > > > because I could be subconsciously hooked on > > InstallShield, > > > but > > > InstallAware seems cumbersome to me. I > guess that > > may > > > also be that I'm > > > just not used to their way of doing things. > > > Conversion for us would > > > take a larger amount of time with this product, > but if > > it > > > works and is > > > stable, that really won't matter much to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I've heard and from what I already knew, > they are > > both > > > major > > > players with InstallShield having a longer > lifespan > > so > > > far. I've been > > > told that InstallAware claims to be on the > cutting > > edge, > > > but their > > > installs at times display weird behavior. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to find an individual(s) that has used > both > > or > > > similar > > > products for a compare and contrast of > sorts. What > > > are the pros and > > > cons? Early on, > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course price will be a factor for us, but I > just > > want to > > > be sure > > > after making a selection I don't miss major > advantages > > of > > > the product > > > that is left behind by our decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please help if you can. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------ > > > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free > > Crystal > > > Reports 2008 > > > 30-Day > > > trial. Simplify your report design, integration > and > > > deployment - and > > > focus on > > > what you do best, core application coding. > Discover > > what's > > > new with > > > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > > > _______________________________________________ > > > WiX-users mailing list > > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------ > > > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free > > Crystal > > > Reports 2008 > > > 30-Day > > > trial. 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Discover > what's > > new with > > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free > Crystal > > Reports 2008 30-Day > > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and > > deployment - and focus > > on > > what you do best, core application coding. Discover > what's > > new with > > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free > Crystal > > Reports 2008 30-Day > > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and > > deployment - and focus > > on > > what you do best, core application coding. Discover > what's > > new with > > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free > Crystal > > Reports 2008 30-Day > > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and > > deployment - and focus on > > what you do best, core application coding. Discover > what's > > new with > > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > > *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including > any > > associated or attached files, is intended solely for > the > > individual or entity to which it is addressed. This > e-mail > > is confidential and may well also be legally > privileged. If > > you have received it in error, you are on notice of > its > > status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply > e-mail > > and then delete this message from your system. Please > do not > > copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its > contents > > to any other person. 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Discover what's > new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any > associated or attached files, is intended solely for the > individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail > is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If > you have received it in error, you are on notice of its > status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail > and then delete this message from your system. Please do not > copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents > to any other person. This email comes from a division of the > Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company > registered in England and Wales with its registered office > at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF > (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal > entities within the Invensys Group, please go to > http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_id=77. > You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or > e-mail inet.hqhelpd...@invensys.com. > This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to > the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its > subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its > subsidiaries and affiliates). > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal > Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and > deployment - and focus on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's > new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
