For those trying to grasp what's going on, some more links: - Statement by the SuSa team manager, explaining the WMF viewpoint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram#Statement_from_Jan_Eissfeldt,_Lead_Manager_of_Trust_&_Safety
- Arbcom case around the desysop/resysop of WJBscribe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#WJBscribe I haven't read everything in detail, but these seem the snippets most relevant to the global community. I'm still struggling to find a good summary of what the new (global) processes/policies of SuSa to address harassment in the broad sense of the word are - Jan only linked to an annual plan announcing them. But then, given the sheer amount of text, I probably missed it if anyone posted a link. Lodewijk On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 3:16 PM Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> wrote: > Wow, that logs page is something else. Pretty ironic that Bishonen would > accuse the Office account of "wheel warring", when the wheel warring policy > explicitly states that reversing an Office Action is indicative of wheel > warring. So I'm *sure* we'll see suitable discussions of sanctions for the > knowing, planned, intentional reversal of an office action against policy, > right? > > Possible indications of an incipient wheel war: > > - An administrator getting too distressed to discuss calmly. > - Deliberately ignoring an existing discussion in favor of a > unilateral preferred action. > - Abruptly undoing administrator actions without consultation. > - *Reversal of a Wikimedia Foundation office action > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Office_actions>.* > > > Dan Rosenthal > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 5:06 PM effe iets anders <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Great, now we have a wheelwar going on ( >> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=Fram >> ). I >> have a hard time seeing how this would help anyone. >> >> A massive discussion where everyone tries to say something and nobody >> really reads everything (because how could you) is not going to lead to >> any >> constructive outcome. I hope that someone picks up the challenge and >> brings >> together the WMF and community before this spins further out of control. >> (I'm naively assuming that the WMF would be willing to engage at least >> privately in conversation if it relies on private information, or publicly >> if it does not). >> >> Lodewijk >> >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 2:40 PM Robert Fernandez <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Framing it as "competence over politeness" is convenient for the >> > people who do not want the latter and imagine they are the former. >> > >> > It also insults the editors who have managed to do both. I know an >> > en.wp editor who has dozens of FAs and somehow managed the herculean >> > feat of not referring to anyone on Wikipedia using the c-word. >> > >> > Framing it as "the culture of the community" leaves out of the >> > community all of us who are sick of this behavior, including long-time >> > veterans of the community like myself (fifteen years), and community >> > victims of harassment asking T&S for help. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Todd Allen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > "Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an >> admin, >> > > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask >> ourselves >> > > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without >> intervening to >> > > stop it." >> > > >> > > First, if Fram were a well-known editor but not an admin, yes, there >> > > absolutely would be such a discussion. But as to why, the answer, very >> > > simply, is that the English Wikipedia community values competence over >> > > politeness, and probably always will. That is part of the culture of >> the >> > > community, and the WMF has no right to override that. >> > > >> > > Todd >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:46 AM camelia boban < >> [email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > I quote David and Isaac. >> > > > Harassment is a serious thing and hounding another user is out of >> any >> > wiki >> > > > behavior. >> > > > Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an >> > admin, >> > > > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask >> > ourselves >> > > > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without >> intervening >> > to >> > > > stop it. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Camelia >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > *Camelia Boban* >> > > > >> > > > *| Java EE Developer |* >> > > > >> > > > *Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia *Foundation >> > > > Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030 >> > > > Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project >> ideator* >> > > > >> > > > *Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead* >> > > > WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member >> > > > >> > > > M. +39 3383385545 >> > > > [email protected] >> > > > *Aissa Technologies* <http://aissatechnologies.eu/>* | *Twitter >> > > > <https://twitter.com/cameliaboban> *|* *LinkedIn >> > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/camelia-boban-31319122>* >> > > > *Wikipedia <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Camelia.boban> **| >> > > > **WikiDonne >> > > > UG <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiDonne>* | *WikiDonne >> Project >> > > > <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:WikiDonne> * >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Il giorno ven 14 giu 2019 alle ore 14:32 Mister Thrapostibongles < >> > > > [email protected]> ha scritto: >> > > > >> > > > > Fæ >> > > > > >> > > > > [...] the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace >> > > > > > existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for >> > > > > > banning bad behaviour on our projects. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Unfortunately, there is ample evidence that the existing English >> > > > Wikipedia >> > > > > community processes are not "perfectly adequate" for that purpose. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > If the English >> > > > > > Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation >> of >> > > > > > policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Indeed. Unfortunately the tone of the discussion here and at >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram >> > > > > suggests >> > > > > that the requisite discussion is now less, not more, likely to >> > happen or >> > > > be >> > > > > productive. >> > > > > >> > > > > Thrapostibongles >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > > > New messages to: [email protected] >> > > > > Unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > > > <mailto:[email protected] >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > > New messages to: [email protected] >> > > > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > > <mailto:[email protected] >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > New messages to: [email protected] >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: [email protected] >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
