That's overstating the community's position a bit, I think. Despite the occasional attempt to get rid of the civility policy, the community has continued to support it -- at least in the abstract -- and generally has no problem whatsoever in sanctioning an ordinary, run-of-the-mill editor for being uncivil, even when that editor is perfectly competent.
Rather, the problem occurs when a *popular* competent editor violates the civility policy (or, for particularly popular editors, virtually any other policy); the traditional consensus-based approach to policy enforcement makes it difficult, if not impossible, to effectively sanction an editor with a substantial contingent of vocal supporters who will argue against any such sanctions whenever the opportunity arises. Kirill On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Todd Allen <[email protected]> wrote: > "Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an admin, > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to > stop it." > > First, if Fram were a well-known editor but not an admin, yes, there > absolutely would be such a discussion. But as to why, the answer, very > simply, is that the English Wikipedia community values competence over > politeness, and probably always will. That is part of the culture of the > community, and the WMF has no right to override that. > > Todd > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:46 AM camelia boban <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I quote David and Isaac. > > Harassment is a serious thing and hounding another user is out of any > wiki > > behavior. > > Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an admin, > > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves > > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to > > stop it. > > > > > > Camelia > > > > > > -- > > *Camelia Boban* > > > > *| Java EE Developer |* > > > > *Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia *Foundation > > Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030 > > Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project ideator* > > > > *Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead* > > WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member > > > > M. +39 3383385545 > > [email protected] > > *Aissa Technologies* <http://aissatechnologies.eu/>* | *Twitter > > <https://twitter.com/cameliaboban> *|* *LinkedIn > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/camelia-boban-31319122>* > > *Wikipedia <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Camelia.boban> **| > > **WikiDonne > > UG <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiDonne>* | *WikiDonne Project > > <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:WikiDonne> * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Il giorno ven 14 giu 2019 alle ore 14:32 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > [email protected]> ha scritto: > > > > > Fæ > > > > > > [...] the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace > > > > existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for > > > > banning bad behaviour on our projects. > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there is ample evidence that the existing English > > Wikipedia > > > community processes are not "perfectly adequate" for that purpose. > > > > > > > > > > If the English > > > > Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation of > > > > policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion > > > > > > > > > Indeed. Unfortunately the tone of the discussion here and at > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram > > > suggests > > > that the requisite discussion is now less, not more, likely to happen > or > > be > > > productive. > > > > > > Thrapostibongles > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
