Well, you'll get no argument from me that I wish people wouldn't be gratuitously rude. (Or use that word; nothing good ever comes of that.)
I am certainly not endorsing that. At the same time, some of the most disruptive editors I've seen were unfailingly polite. Todd On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 3:40 PM Robert Fernandez <[email protected]> wrote: > Framing it as "competence over politeness" is convenient for the > people who do not want the latter and imagine they are the former. > > It also insults the editors who have managed to do both. I know an > en.wp editor who has dozens of FAs and somehow managed the herculean > feat of not referring to anyone on Wikipedia using the c-word. > > Framing it as "the culture of the community" leaves out of the > community all of us who are sick of this behavior, including long-time > veterans of the community like myself (fifteen years), and community > victims of harassment asking T&S for help. > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Todd Allen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > "Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an admin, > > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves > > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to > > stop it." > > > > First, if Fram were a well-known editor but not an admin, yes, there > > absolutely would be such a discussion. But as to why, the answer, very > > simply, is that the English Wikipedia community values competence over > > politeness, and probably always will. That is part of the culture of the > > community, and the WMF has no right to override that. > > > > Todd > > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:46 AM camelia boban <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > I quote David and Isaac. > > > Harassment is a serious thing and hounding another user is out of any > wiki > > > behavior. > > > Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an > admin, > > > all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask > ourselves > > > why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening > to > > > stop it. > > > > > > > > > Camelia > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *Camelia Boban* > > > > > > *| Java EE Developer |* > > > > > > *Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia *Foundation > > > Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030 > > > Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project ideator* > > > > > > *Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead* > > > WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member > > > > > > M. +39 3383385545 > > > [email protected] > > > *Aissa Technologies* <http://aissatechnologies.eu/>* | *Twitter > > > <https://twitter.com/cameliaboban> *|* *LinkedIn > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/camelia-boban-31319122>* > > > *Wikipedia <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Camelia.boban> **| > > > **WikiDonne > > > UG <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiDonne>* | *WikiDonne Project > > > <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:WikiDonne> * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Il giorno ven 14 giu 2019 alle ore 14:32 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > [email protected]> ha scritto: > > > > > > > Fæ > > > > > > > > [...] the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace > > > > > existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for > > > > > banning bad behaviour on our projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there is ample evidence that the existing English > > > Wikipedia > > > > community processes are not "perfectly adequate" for that purpose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the English > > > > > Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation of > > > > > policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > Indeed. Unfortunately the tone of the discussion here and at > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram > > > > suggests > > > > that the requisite discussion is now less, not more, likely to > happen or > > > be > > > > productive. > > > > > > > > Thrapostibongles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
