hector rosenfeld wrote:
>
> Dear gurus:
>
> What does vnc actually do for its users, regardless of how it does it?
Short answer hector. It lets and admin or geek on a network sit at
computer A in his office and do work on computer B which is sitting in
another room(or building) as if said Geek was sitting at Computer B.
>
> >From the documentation it appears that what it does is to make it
> possible for a remote user to have a copy of the desktop of some host to
> which it is connected, and with the desirable property of being
> independent of the architectures of the machines involved.
You have the basic Idea down solid.
>
> For ignoramuses such as myself, this simple explanation opens a pandora
> box of questions, which are not readily answered by the documentation or
> by the archived questions to the user community questions which are
> invariably arcane or have limited scope.
I take it from this comment that you are not a power user or Tech
minded computer person. VNC is designed for the tech savy user. This
said let's see what I can do about the rest of the questions.
>
> 1) What exactly is a "desktop" in this context. When one starts Windows
I go to MS Windows for this answer. The "Desktop" is what you see when
Windows starts up. It it is the place where those Icons and windows you
mention later appear.
> one get a collection of icons to which one gradually adds many more to
> access frequently used applications.
>
> A typical user that wants a serious session with one application, will
> have it automatically open a window in which it will reside.
>
> If one does not want to be bothered by distractions, one fills the
> screen with that one application and the original deskstop will
> disappear, except for some handles to recover it.
>
> In other cases, a more scatter brained user will fill the screen with
> several applications, occasionally mutually pasting their contents via
> the clipboard.
>
Not a bad description of two very typical user types.
> 2) Enter vnc. The remote user has fired his computer which, for
> argument sakes, we will assume is a Windows machine that happens to
> have the same icons in the same locations as the previous one.
>
> Before a connection is established, both users will be looking at the
> same screen,(if no applications have been opened by the host) not
> because vnc will have done anything, but because the screens are
> identical in the first place.
I think I under stand this. Computer A (remote) and B (host) are the
same. Each has a user. Not really a situation i would use VNC in.
>
> Assume now that vnc is fired. In ways that do not interest us at the
> moment, the remote user will have a "version" of the screen that is
> present at the host.
>
So far correct,
> If there were no provisions for the creation of a special window at the
> remote machine to contain the contents of the host screen, (a window
> that would not occupy the whole of the remote screen), we would have the
> disconcerting fact that the remote computer would not know if what he is
> looking at is his original screen or a version of what the host has.
This where you made the first mistake. Like any other application Vnc is
opened in a window. Like Any app this window and be enlarged or
minimized. Also it has one feature that does allow it to go to a
fullscreen mode, basically replacing the orginal desktop. Side note you
seem to have teh idea of host and remote backwards but that is minor. I
will use your Understanding for my explination
>
> In other words, if the remote computer is to remain the master of his
> affairs he should be able to confine his version of the host screen to a
> window that will look like any other of the windows that he might open
> to run any of his own applications.
>
As you see from above this is not an issue.
> So question 2) is then this: Does the remote computer still control his
> affairs and so can give benign neglect to the turbullent mind of the
> host, as reflected in his messy window?
Yup Pretty much. but why keep VNC open if your not using the host
machine.
>
> 3) Assume now that the host opens an application in his deskstop which
> does not fill his screen,so as to be free to do other things.
>
> The change in the looks of the screen is detected by vnc which dutifully
> reflects the opening of the application in the remote machine,
> presumably in a subwindow of the window containing the reflected
> deskstop of the host, a subwindow that is not subject to manipulations
> because it is not under the control of the remote computer.
You got half this right and half wrong. The changes to the host machine
are reflected in the VNcwindow of the remote machine. The remote machine
CAN manipulate the data and programs on the host machine, this is VNC's
purpose.
>
> Or is it? Who is really in control here? do we have a static situation
> that only appears dynamic in that any changes in the host screen are
> reflected in the remote machine,yes, but with the control still in the
> hands of the host?
This paticular scenario is not going to happen with VNC as it is a
remote acces program.
> Or can the remote machine take over the whole of the host, with the
> power of deciding what applications the host machine should open?
>
> Or can the desirable situation of having BOTH open applications at the
> host computer, while leaving each free to do other things?
>
Both of these are possible depending on th eoptions set in the VNC app.
> Notice that even if all this is possible, there are still many other
> questions:
>
> a) There is a severe lack of symmetry in this scenario.
>
> It is only the host machine screen that is reflected at the remote
> machine, and not viceversa.
>
The remote is using the host machine not the host using the remote, so
the above symmetry is not needed.
> When the host user wants to open another aplication such as a file that
> he had created earlier containig adult contents, the remote user will
> automatically, and presumably willy-nilly, get an education, since the
> whole of the host's desktop is what he always sees,containing many
> subwindows with their respective applications
This is correct.
>
> And he can, presumably, even perfect his education by opening another
> file of his own, without this fact being known to the host!
This fact would be known to the host as teh host would see the program
open on the desktop, assuming the above fiel where on the host machine.
if it was on the remote then no the host would not see it.
>
> Furthermore, if both could open applications at the host machine, as
> speculated above, the situation would be better but it would still lack
> symmetry.
Again correct. and again why the need for symmetry? Note that VNC was
not developed for colabrative work but for admin jobs as mentioned on
the home page.
>
> I would like you gurus out there to tell me if the dream that follows is
> at all possible, without getting too geeky.
>
> (I know that that is not in your nature but work at it, for the sake of
> the sanity of mortals. You will make new friends and influence people).
>
> b) We could now speculate about what sense would it make, in an attempt
> at symmetry, to simultaneously have the remote machine become a server
> with the current host becoming the remote machine with respect to the
> "ex remote" which would become also a host? This would, in principle,
> restore a modicum of symmetry but it seems crazy, since it would require
> at the very least and among other complications, that there be TWO
> windows in each machine to
> keep straight whose deskstop is whom's
Not quite. Each machine would each need VNc running. The result would be
that A would get window of B showing it remotely connectted to A being
remotely conncedt to be add nauesum. Sort of like putting to mirrors
face to face.
>
> b) The following is a more general and exciting dream that this
> writer can really use if it were possible:
>
> Please do not laugh too loud at my ignorance and collectively see how
> far we can all go together to make this possible by using the vnc tools
> already available. This property can be used by many, and it may be
> already prevalent, for all I know.
>
> Suppose two people want to write a poem together but they want to do it
> by writing a single line or at most a few lines alternating between each
> other, and drawing inspiration from what each just wrote, to configure
> what to write next.
>
> A good analogy is a jazz improvisation session in which each musician
> adds to what the previous one did, in a tightly coordinated manner.
>
This is not the purpose of VNC. What you are looking for is something
like Netmeeting (MS) or some other collabrative work program.
> To make this possible the following would be necessary, as one
> alternative:
>
> The host opens a Word document and writes the first line, or using the
> Clipboard incorporates into it what he wrote into a file the night
> before, when he felt inspired to poetry by that superb TV show
> Smackdown.
>
> The remote guy now reads the line and types in his/her two cents worth.
>
> Look at the enormous implications of this seemingly innocent move!
>
> The situation is far from static, even when it is not symmetric. We are
> actually expecting to both be able to type into the same document even
> when the remote has taken over the host and presumably the host has been
> rendered powerless to type into the Word Window, or the other way around
> if the remote has opened Word in his machine.
>
> If this business of typing lines by both participants were possible,one
> way or another, one could collaborate in many other ways, like making a
> cartoon together using Adobe Illustrator, which would be more
> interesting than simple text.
>
> What I have in mind for myself is a close collaboration with others in
> writing a scientific program in C, with many people typing in statements
> that can be reviewed on the fly by all participants and comments added
> to the code by those that want to record the purpose of each coding move
> so as not to forget what happened.
>
> This would be the ultimate in collaboration, particularly if a phone
> line is used in parallel to instantly have a conference call if there
> are more than two participant or just to talk to a single remote, all
> without having to waste time typing some stupic remark by one
> participant or fend questions that make the parties loose focus.
>
> Of course,this whole thing would only be done occasionally when the
> specifications for the coding of the part of the code being discussed
> have already been settled and have been mulled over earlier by the
> conferees, to make the session productive.
>
> This is all I wanted to say. Have mercy on an idiot and see what can be
> done
VNC will definetly not meet you needs. You need some type of network
conferencing software. Other than Netmeeting I have no Idea where you
can find that type of program. as mentioned before CVS or a Tinderbox
could work for this.
> Hector
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Hope that answers your questionsin mortal language :).
Evan
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