2010/2/23 Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <thiag...@gmail.com>: > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:58:46 -0300, Raul Raja Martinez <raulr...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Having the small user base is actually a good think. >> Frameworks with bigger communities tend to become monsters and >> implement features that are not necessary. >> Developing in such frameworks is usually not fun and new features take >> a long time to show up because every stakeholder has to be pleased. >> Not to mention when the stakeholders are companies.... > > I guess this is more of a governance problem. Even small projects with few > people using can fall in this trap. A project has to have a vision and > follow it. > >> I would never choose Tapestry when it comes to develop something for a >> very big company where many devs are part of it and other people are >> going to take over after dev is over. The main reason is that is not a >> standard and many people don't know what's about or how to use it. > > I've just spent whole January, four hours a week, teaching Tapestry in a > large company with lots of people working in large projects, including one > that will be used nationwide in Brazil. The standard argument doesn't > convince me: JSF is a mess and it is a standard. It suffers from the > every-stakeholder-must-be-pleased disease you mentioned above, and most of > the stakeholders were tool makers, not application makers. Spring is not a > standard, but has lots of users, including large businesses. Hibernate and > Hibernate Validator weren't standards, but were so widely praised and used > that helped shape JSRs.
I agree completely with you, it's just that I have been contacted always to do straight jsp/servlets struts or jsf in big companies here in the US whenever I'm in need of a job. The case where an Architect or Dev lead chooses to use Tapestry and all the team is introduced to it, it is rare. Most companies and places expect devs to have experience with a framework before they're hired. In many cases the decision of what to use is not even made by devs. > >> I don't believe tapestry has any learning curve at all, it is just not >> a standard and its natural that devs that are used to go by the book >> find a big learning curve. > > I think it's a matter of doing things differently (people take a lot of time > to change their habits) and writing better documentation. > >> +1 in keeping it nice and cool. > > Regarding the "cool" part, something that really stands out about some other > frameworks like Vaadin (http://vaadin.com/home) and Play > (http://www.playframework.org/) are their websites' design. They're really > beautiful, they have a step-by-step tutorial linked in the first page, they > have very organised documentation. All that give them a nice impression > outright. Sometimes I think Tapestry needs a web designer more than anything > else. :) Then I remember how bad I am at design. www.arsmachina.com.br for > an example of that. Agreed, no creative sense here either but one of the designer in our team already commented on how the out of the box look of the ajax validators and the site itself needs a real designer. > > -- > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and > instructor > Owner, software architect and developer, Ars Machina Tecnologia da > Informação Ltda. > http://www.arsmachina.com.br > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > -- Raul Raja --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
