Heh... Couldn't have put it better. Very well spoken Steven.
On 5/23/06, Steven Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I haven't had the chance to really play with GWT as much as I would like yet, but my first impression is this: 1. Very cool technology. 2. Interesting concept. 3. Nice to have all the IDE support for developing an interactive AJAX website. but... 4. It doesn't lend itself to the separation of concerns between UI design and webapp development. 5. It leaves you very locked into the tool and reliant on Google (could be good or bad, but leaves me a bit uneasy). 6. It seems to be an all or nothing thing. Use GWT or don't, there is no use GWT on these couple of pages, but not the rest. 7. It seems to lend itself to the 'one very dynamic page' type of webapp, which is great for some things, but unworkable for others. 8. If you some reason you ever have to debug or tweak the output html or javascript god help you, cause I won't. Like I said I have only had a quick look at it so some of my impressions my be off base. I can see cases where this would be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and others where it would be a nightmare to work with. On 5/23/06, Konstantin Ignatyev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I do not miss Flash even a bit and do not want to spend any time on > configuring that. If site requires flash then they do not have my business. > I mention this problem only to show situation where Flash is not that easy > to install. > > Alex Kartashev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yeah... I think you can > install 32-bit version of flash and it would > work.... Or you may need to install a 32-bit version of Firefox. I > remember I had this problem on Fedora Core 4 on AMD64 kernel. Yes... you > need the Firefox version from 32-bit distro. > > -Serge > > Konstantin Ignatyev wrote: > > >Agreed. Easines of getting JVM is the key. Win comes without Flash but it > is easy and relatively fast to install it. > > > >The problem should be solved: JVM should be easy to install, easier than > Flash (whish does not work at all on my 64bit Gentoo- not that I miss it). > > > > > > > >Sergei Dubov wrote: Interesting... How can an applet be a viable > alternative if it needs a > >JVM to run, and Windoz comes without it. I think this problem needs to > >be solved first if applets/JWS are to come back into fashion. > > > >-Serge > > > >Konstantin Ignatyev wrote: > > > > > > > >>Paul Cantrell wrote: Horrible, horrible, GridBagLayout.... I loathe it. > What an awful > >>mess. CSS is so many thousands of times nicer for doing layout.... > >> > >>Couple of wrapper functions to constraints make it very easy to use, not > to mention that it is very easy to arrange components in UI editor like > NetBeans. > >> > >>And if you do not like it, then there is plenty of layout managers for > Swing > >>http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Javadesktop/3thParty > >> > >>I am sympathetic to the "applets not Javascript" argument, though. > >>"Applets with CSS layout" would be especially nice. > >> > >>But applets don't integrate well with the flow of the web: like Flash- > >>based sites, you can't bookmark them, search engines can't index > >>them, etc. > >> > >>I was talking at conceptual level, by no means I consider current state > of Applets to be ideal. But the problems you have mentioned are very common > for all kinds of stateful techniques: Tapestry, heavy Ajax applilications, > Echo2, and I guess GWT. Even if continuation is used it is still hard to do, > for example fhat good will it do if we will be able to bookmark a > purchasing transaction in the middle? > >> > >>On Flash - the technology does not make sense at all: it is crippled and > simplified JVM that runs one Flash VM per Flash that quickly brings any > comp on the knees when number of flashes grows beyond 10. Not to mention > inability to share and reuse fllash libraries on client. And if they will > try to implement all that in the Flash VM then it will be as heavy as Java. > If Java RT was modular then Applets would be able to do everything that > Flash does but more efficiently. > >> > >>There are limits to what they're good for. If there were a > >>good way to attach Java to a page's DOM, then we'd be cooking. > >> > >>I do not think so. We will be still dependent on browser's abilities, > and IMO emerging trends indicate that people want to break free from > limitations of HTML and browser while being able to make use of it. > >>I wonder how limited GWT is in this respect? Tapestry works very hard > >>to respect the client's control of their browser. > >> > >>P > >> > >> > >>On May 21, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Konstantin Ignatyev wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>http://www.swixml.org/ > >>>http://www.java2s.com/Product/Swing/LookAndFeel.htm > >>> > >>>And Swing can support any kind of layout managers but I have found > >>>GridBagLayout to be very flexible and good for nearly everything I > >>>do with Swing. > >>> > >>>Therefore I think it does not make sense to try (re)creating Swing > >>>in browsers. Applets is what we really need :). > >>> > >>> > >>>Norbert S�ndor wrote:The good thing in > >>>GWT is to use the efficient development style of Swing > >>>(I mean Java only, easy to debug/test) but allow to use the underlying > >>>browser's HTML+CSS capatibilites for layout. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Konstantin Ignatyev > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add > >>>fifteen million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115 > >>>square miles of tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of > >>>desert, eliminate between forty to one hundred species, erode > >>>seventy-one million tons of topsoil, add 2,700 tons of CFCs to the > >>>stratosphere, and increase their population by 263,000 > >>> > >>>Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: Why the Environmental > >>>Movement Needs a Strategy for Reforming Universities and Public > >>>Schools. New York: State University of New York Press, 1997: (4) > >>>(5) (p.206) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>Piano music podcast: http://inthehands.com > >>Other interesting stuff: http://innig.net > >> > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Konstantin Ignatyev > > > > > PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add fifteen > million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115 square miles of > tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of desert, eliminate between > forty to one hundred species, erode seventy-one million tons of topsoil, add > 2,700 tons of CFCs to the stratosphere, and increase their population by > 263,000 > > Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: Why the Environmental Movement Needs > a Strategy for Reforming Universities and Public Schools. New York: State > University of New York Press, 1997: (4) (5) (p.206) > -- Regards, Steven Bell
-- Jesse Kuhnert Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer Open source based consulting work centered around dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind.
