Agreed. Easines of getting JVM is the key. Win comes without Flash but it is easy and relatively fast to install it.
The problem should be solved: JVM should be easy to install, easier than Flash (whish does not work at all on my 64bit Gentoo- not that I miss it). Sergei Dubov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting... How can an applet be a viable alternative if it needs a JVM to run, and Windoz comes without it. I think this problem needs to be solved first if applets/JWS are to come back into fashion. -Serge Konstantin Ignatyev wrote: >Paul Cantrell wrote: Horrible, horrible, GridBagLayout.... I loathe it. What >an awful >mess. CSS is so many thousands of times nicer for doing layout.... > >Couple of wrapper functions to constraints make it very easy to use, not to >mention that it is very easy to arrange components in UI editor like NetBeans. > >And if you do not like it, then there is plenty of layout managers for Swing >http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Javadesktop/3thParty > >I am sympathetic to the "applets not Javascript" argument, though. >"Applets with CSS layout" would be especially nice. > >But applets don't integrate well with the flow of the web: like Flash- >based sites, you can't bookmark them, search engines can't index >them, etc. > >I was talking at conceptual level, by no means I consider current state of >Applets to be ideal. But the problems you have mentioned are very common for >all kinds of stateful techniques: Tapestry, heavy Ajax applilications, Echo2, >and I guess GWT. Even if continuation is used it is still hard to do, for >example fhat good will it do if we will be able to bookmark a purchasing >transaction in the middle? > >On Flash - the technology does not make sense at all: it is crippled and >simplified JVM that runs one Flash VM per Flash that quickly brings any comp >on the knees when number of flashes grows beyond 10. Not to mention inability >to share and reuse fllash libraries on client. And if they will try to >implement all that in the Flash VM then it will be as heavy as Java. If Java >RT was modular then Applets would be able to do everything that Flash does but >more efficiently. > > There are limits to what they're good for. If there were a >good way to attach Java to a page's DOM, then we'd be cooking. > >I do not think so. We will be still dependent on browser's abilities, and IMO >emerging trends indicate that people want to break free from limitations of >HTML and browser while being able to make use of it. >I wonder how limited GWT is in this respect? Tapestry works very hard >to respect the client's control of their browser. > >P > > >On May 21, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Konstantin Ignatyev wrote: > > > >>http://www.swixml.org/ >>http://www.java2s.com/Product/Swing/LookAndFeel.htm >> >>And Swing can support any kind of layout managers but I have found >>GridBagLayout to be very flexible and good for nearly everything I >>do with Swing. >> >>Therefore I think it does not make sense to try (re)creating Swing >>in browsers. Applets is what we really need :). >> >> >>Norbert S�ndor wrote:The good thing in >>GWT is to use the efficient development style of Swing >>(I mean Java only, easy to debug/test) but allow to use the underlying >>browser's HTML+CSS capatibilites for layout. >> >> >> >>Konstantin Ignatyev >> >> >> >> >>PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add >>fifteen million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115 >>square miles of tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of >>desert, eliminate between forty to one hundred species, erode >>seventy-one million tons of topsoil, add 2,700 tons of CFCs to the >>stratosphere, and increase their population by 263,000 >> >>Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: Why the Environmental >>Movement Needs a Strategy for Reforming Universities and Public >>Schools. New York: State University of New York Press, 1997: (4) >>(5) (p.206) >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Piano music podcast: http://inthehands.com >Other interesting stuff: http://innig.net > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
