>
> 4. It doesn't lend itself to the separation of concerns between UI
design
> and webapp development.
In its current form yes, and no. The widgetry created in code - yes.
Where individual chunks of widgetry are located on a page - no. A page
can be all GWT or just a few bits of it quite easily. And all widgetry
is located via html and styled via css.
> 5. It leaves you very locked into the tool and reliant on Google
(could
be
> good or bad, but leaves me a bit uneasy).
I'd like to say "yes and no" but unfortunatley I can't. The compiler
and dev tool are not open source but everyting else is.
> 6. It seems to be an all or nothing thing. Use GWT or don't,
there is
no
> use GWT on these couple of pages, but not the rest.
Nope - this is untrue.
> 7. It seems to lend itself to the 'one very dynamic page' type of
webapp,
> which is great for some things, but unworkable for others.
This is true for a page that is all GWT widgets. Not true in general
as you can use the widgets as pieces of a regualr page (and even call
out to "native' js with ease). Somebody has already wrapped
Scriptaculous as a Java class with native method calls out.
> 8. If you some reason you ever have to debug or tweak the output html
or
> javascript god help you, cause I won't.
You can set the compiler to output unobfuscated and uncompressed
javascript. So, it's no harder to debug the js than you choose it to
be.
Although, I despise debugging js and much prefer being able to debug
the java source code!
>
> Like I said I have only had a quick look at it so some of my
impressions
my
> be off base. I can see cases where this would be the greatest thing
since
> sliced bread, and others where it would be a nightmare to work with.
It remains to be seen how GWT will go over. I like it. I wish I had
more free time to play with it. I think I've figured out how to
integrate GWT widgets with Tap (an approach anyway) but no time!
Geoff
>
> On 5/23/06, Konstantin Ignatyev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I do not miss Flash even a bit and do not want to spend any time on
> > configuring that. If site requires flash then they do not have my
business.
> > I mention this problem only to show situation where Flash is not
that
easy
> > to install.
> >
> > Alex Kartashev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yeah... I think you
can
> > install 32-bit version of flash and it would
> > work.... Or you may need to install a 32-bit version of Firefox. I
> > remember I had this problem on Fedora Core 4 on AMD64 kernel. Yes...
you
> > need the Firefox version from 32-bit distro.
> >
> > -Serge
> >
> > Konstantin Ignatyev wrote:
> >
> > >Agreed. Easines of getting JVM is the key. Win comes without Flash
but it
> > is easy and relatively fast to install it.
> > >
> > >The problem should be solved: JVM should be easy to install, easier
than
> > Flash (whish does not work at all on my 64bit Gentoo- not that I
miss
it).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Sergei Dubov wrote: Interesting... How can an applet be a viable
> > alternative if it needs a
> > >JVM to run, and Windoz comes without it. I think this problem needs
to
> > >be solved first if applets/JWS are to come back into fashion.
> > >
> > >-Serge
> > >
> > >Konstantin Ignatyev wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Paul Cantrell wrote: Horrible, horrible, GridBagLayout.... I
loathe
it.
> > What an awful
> > >>mess. CSS is so many thousands of times nicer for doing layout....
> > >>
> > >>Couple of wrapper functions to constraints make it very easy to
use,
not
> > to mention that it is very easy to arrange components in UI editor
like
> > NetBeans.
> > >>
> > >>And if you do not like it, then there is plenty of layout managers
for
> > Swing
> > >>http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Javadesktop/3thParty
> > >>
> > >>I am sympathetic to the "applets not Javascript" argument, though.
> > >>"Applets with CSS layout" would be especially nice.
> > >>
> > >>But applets don't integrate well with the flow of the web: like
Flash-
> > >>based sites, you can't bookmark them, search engines can't index
> > >>them, etc.
> > >>
> > >>I was talking at conceptual level, by no means I consider current
state
> > of Applets to be ideal. But the problems you have mentioned are
very
common
> > for all kinds of stateful techniques: Tapestry, heavy Ajax
applilications,
> > Echo2, and I guess GWT. Even if continuation is used it is still
hard
to do,
> > for example fhat good will it do if we will be able to bookmark a
> > purchasing transaction in the middle?
> > >>
> > >>On Flash - the technology does not make sense at all: it is
crippled
and
> > simplified JVM that runs one Flash VM per Flash that quickly brings
any
> > comp on the knees when number of flashes grows beyond 10. Not to
mention
> > inability to share and reuse fllash libraries on client. And if they
will
> > try to implement all that in the Flash VM then it will be as
heavy as
Java.
> > If Java RT was modular then Applets would be able to do everything
that
> > Flash does but more efficiently.
> > >>
> > >>There are limits to what they're good for. If there were a
> > >>good way to attach Java to a page's DOM, then we'd be cooking.
> > >>
> > >>I do not think so. We will be still dependent on browser's
abilities,
> > and IMO emerging trends indicate that people want to break free from
> > limitations of HTML and browser while being able to make use of it.
> > >>I wonder how limited GWT is in this respect? Tapestry works very
hard
> > >>to respect the client's control of their browser.
> > >>
> > >>P
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>On May 21, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Konstantin Ignatyev wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>http://www.swixml.org/
> > >>>http://www.java2s.com/Product/Swing/LookAndFeel.htm
> > >>>
> > >>>And Swing can support any kind of layout managers but I have
found
> > >>>GridBagLayout to be very flexible and good for nearly
everything I
> > >>>do with Swing.
> > >>>
> > >>>Therefore I think it does not make sense to try (re)creating
Swing
> > >>>in browsers. Applets is what we really need :).
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Norbert S�ndor wrote:The good thing in
> > >>>GWT is to use the efficient development style of Swing
> > >>>(I mean Java only, easy to debug/test) but allow to use the
underlying
> > >>>browser's HTML+CSS capatibilites for layout.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Konstantin Ignatyev
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add
> > >>>fifteen million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115
> > >>>square miles of tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of
> > >>>desert, eliminate between forty to one hundred species, erode
> > >>>seventy-one million tons of topsoil, add 2,700 tons of CFCs to
the
> > >>>stratosphere, and increase their population by 263,000
> > >>>
> > >>>Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: Why the Environmental
> > >>>Movement Needs a Strategy for Reforming Universities and Public
> > >>>Schools. New York: State University of New York Press, 1997:
(4)
> > >>>(5) (p.206)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>_________________________________________________________________
> > >>Piano music podcast: http://inthehands.com
> > >>Other interesting stuff: http://innig.net
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Konstantin Ignatyev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add
fifteen
> > million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115 square
miles of
> > tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of desert, eliminate
between
> > forty to one hundred species, erode seventy-one million tons of
topsoil, add
> > 2,700 tons of CFCs to the stratosphere, and increase their
population
by
> > 263,000
> >
> > Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: Why the Environmental Movement
Needs
> > a Strategy for Reforming Universities and Public Schools. New
York: State
> > University of New York Press, 1997: (4) (5) (p.206)
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Steven Bell
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
