On 4/5/19, Lee wrote: > On 4/5/19, Kevin Simper wrote: >> You should submit a patch, that would be a great way to move the >> conversation forward 😄 > > If I thought they'd add some warnings, sure, but I suspect that adding > anything that would make the tor browser look less than perfectly safe > isn't going to happen. > > For the download page: > line 132 - remove this bit > <div class="pull-right"> > <a class="btn btn-outline-light pull-right" href="../download/"> > Download Tor Browser<span class="oi oi-arrow-bottom-png > ml-2 p-1"></span> > </a> > </div> > You're already on https://www.torproject.org/download/ > Having a link to the page you're already on is confusing at best.
Both of the "Download Tor Browser" links still point to https://www.torproject.org/download/ Would someone please either get rid of those links or change them to https://www.torproject.org/download/languages/ Thanks, Lee > > line 333 - remove this bit, over-promising & linking to the page > you're already on > <div class="row"> > <div class="col-12 d-flex justify-content-right"> > <div class="container pt-5 justify-content-right"> > <div class="offset-lx-2 offset-sm-4 mt-5"> > <h2 class="text-white text-bold">Download Tor Browser</h2> > <p class="text-white">Download Tor Browser to experience > real private browsing without tracking, surveillance, or > censorship.</p> > > <a class="btn text-primary bg-white btn-light pull-right > mt-2" href="../download/"> > Download Tor Browser<span class="oi > oi-arrow-bottom-png-purple ml-2 p-1" title="icon arrow-bottom" > aria-hidden="true"></span> > </a> > </div> > </div> > </div> > > > I don't remember where this quote came from, but it was from a > discussion on web page design: > > Iconography is counter intuitive to the literate. > > Underneath the graphics that I thought were just graphics - eg: > <a class="downloadLink" > href="https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrowser/8.0.8/torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe";> > <i class="fab fa-windows-png text-light"></i> > </a> > > add the link text for the program & signature > <a > href="https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrowser/8.0.8/torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe";>torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe</a><br> > <a > href=https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrowser/8.0.8/torbrowser-install-win64-8.0.8_en-US.exe.asc";>sig</a> > > And move the > Verify Tor Browser signature > link to immediately after. > > Lee > > > >> -Kevin >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 1:34 PM Lee <ler...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 4/5/19, Kevin Simper <kevin.sim...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > I think the website is good, >>> >>> If they'd fix the download link on >>> https://www.torproject.org/download/ it would be a lot better. >>> >>> > I felt before that it left out newcomers that >>> > didn't know what torbrowser was already, so much was going on that it >>> would >>> > confuse people that just have heard others mention tor browser and >>> > want >>> to >>> > check it out. >>> >>> It seems to me that newcomers are the ones that most need warnings >>> instead of a blanket >>> Protect yourself against tracking, surveillance, and censorship. >>> >>> but I don't see anything there about tbb not defaulting to a safer >>> config >>> https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled >>> >>> and is this still be an open problem? >>> >>> https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3qnj/how-the-nsa-or-anyone-else-can-crack-tors-anonymity >>> >>> But tor needs 'covering traffic' and .. what? They don't want to >>> scare people away? >>> >>> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/dear-nsa-privacy-fundamental-right-not-reasonable-suspicion >>> >>> > I think there is still space for more nerdy pages and I think anyone >>> > is >>> > allowed to create such a page if they want +1 >>> > >>> > The only thing I am missing is some call to actions for different >>> > parts >>> of >>> > the website when you have done scrolling to the bottom of the page 😄 >>> >>> I'm missing a link for downloading tor. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Lee >>> >>> > >>> > -Kevin >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 4:17 PM Lee <ler...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> On 4/3/19, blacklight...@tutanota.com <blacklight...@tutanota.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> > Pretty sure this guy is just trolling and baiting at this point >>> >> >>> >> It looks more like frustration to me >>> >> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org >>> >> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010. >>> >> >>> >> Starting at https://www.torproject.org/ >>> >> Browse Privately. >>> >> - with no caveats. >>> >> BLOCK TRACKERS >>> >> - except they aren't actually blocked, just isolated. right? >>> >> DEFEND AGAINST SURVEILLANCE >>> >> - I suspect tor is a better defense than using a vpn but still... >>> >> with no warnings or caveats it seems a bit much. >>> >> RESIST FINGERPRINTING >>> >> - yay! "Tor Browser aims to ..." a reasonable claim. >>> >> >>> >> But wait! There's more!! >>> >> >>> >> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link & go to >>> >> https://www.torproject.org/download/ >>> >> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link on that page and get sent to >>> >> "../download/" but that's where I was, so wtf? Maybe I need >>> >> javascript enabled?? >>> >> >>> >> There's also a link for "Verify Tor Browser signature" but no link to >>> >> the signature file. >>> >> >>> >> At least the "Download in another language" link gets me to a page >>> >> where I can download tbb and the sig. It doesn't show which version >>> >> will be downloaded, but it does have working links, so it's >>> >> infinitely >>> >> better than the download page. >>> >> >>> >> Lee >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > Apr 3, 2019, 10:47 AM by grarp...@gmail.com: >>> >> > >>> >> >>> why adversaries should finance tor project and publicly it if >>> >> >>> they >>> >> >>> have >>> >> >>> a malicious intent? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Why do adversaries do that to their opponents? >>> >> >> Because it's a simple and effective diversion operation. >>> >> >> Nor is it dependant upon whether any "malicious intent". >>> >> >> Adversaries often fund their opponents to keep them busy and happy >>> >> >> even if opponent only a few steps tangent behind the race to >>> >> >> actually >>> >> >> being able to kill the adversary. It can work actively... >>> >> >> "Here's a pile and stream of money to develop some useless >>> >> >> or thing we want in an RFP / contract / grant / employee", >>> >> >> or passively... "Hey, those guys seem to be going down useless >>> >> >> paths, ok here's a bunch of money to keep them happily digging >>> >> >> in those holes, LOL." Usually delivered by false fronts. >>> >> >> See also "regulatory capture" type of concept. Also how nice >>> >> >> salaries and simple weight of self reinforcing mass inertia and >>> >> >> groupthink over time can keep any one or group settled into the >>> >> >> same thing, less dynamism, up to even not abandoning and starting >>> >> >> out elsewhere due to simple risk aversion... "job food friends >>> >> lifestyle." >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Is an entity, product, or network subject to whatever >>> >> >> to some degree or other? Maybe, maybe not, others decide. >>> >> >> Yet without talking about and analysing harder questions >>> >> >> once in a while, especially as generations come and go, >>> >> >> people might have less sense therein. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> If a site looks sexy it must be good, right? >>> >> >> That's what at least marketers think, and it's perhaps good enough >>> >> >> for browsing mundane TV news sites. Yet there's no frontpage >>> >> >> splash disclaimer for others with more sensitive, vulnerable, >>> >> >> or different use cases. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Nor mention of Tor people hypocritically trying to censor ban >>> >> >> nodes out of the consensus for, ironically, nothing more than >>> >> >> excercising their right to free speech. Instead of say punting >>> >> >> that >>> >> >> out to meta analysis projects that users can choose to subscribe >>> >> >> to as suits their own likes, support, and thinking therein. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> To be fair, no different than any other business (say ibm.com) >>> >> >> or opensource project... finding much suitability disclaimer >>> >> >> on anyone's pages, surely not without a good number of clicks, >>> >> >> it's of less interest or natural to cover some potentially >>> >> >> questionable areas, adversarial weaknesses, etc... it doesn't >>> >> >> sell. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Anyhow... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org >>> >> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010. Some historical bisects.. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Site v1 >>> >> >> first, domain 1998-01-29 >>> >> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net/ >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> same content actually to "circa" 2006 >>> >> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net/ >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net/ >>> >> > >>> >> >> except for the gov diff >>> >> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net/ >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> curr >>> >> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net/ >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Site v2 >>> >> >> first, domain 2006-10-17 >>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org/> >>> >> >> last >>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org/> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Site v3 >>> >> >> first >>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org/> >>> >> >> last >>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org/> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Site v4 >>> >> >> first >>> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org >>> >> >> < >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org/> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Misc... >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter >>> >> >> < >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter >>> >> >> < >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter >>> >> >> < >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki >>> >> >> < >>> >> >>> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> what you said >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> It's really all junk lately, just delete it. >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> tor-talk mailing list - > tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >>> >> >> <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to >>> >> >> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk >>> >> >> <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >>> >> > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to >>> >> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk >>> >> > >>> >> -- >>> >> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >>> >> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to >>> >> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk >>> >> >>> > -- >>> > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >>> > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to >>> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk >>> > >>> -- >>> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >>> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to >>> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk >>> >> -- >> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to >> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk >> > -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
