on 1/15/01 7:39 PM, "Rajiv Mordani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Jon Stevens wrote:
>
>> on 1/15/01 3:09 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course, what you don't like is either "not proposed or agreed" or "not
>>> justified " ( the -1 votes against you ) or "not agreed by the PMC".
>>>
>>> And what you want is "what the community want".
>>>
>>> --
>>> Costin
>>>
>>> P.S. - ops, it seems you got me again - into answering. Sorry.
>>
>> Costin, this has been like you since I have known you. You are an excellent
>> developer in that you can work on your own, but when it comes to working
>> within a project or group of people where you need to ask the opinions of
>> others and then take those seriously, I haven't seen you doing that at all.
>
> Maybe you should talk to Scott Boag et al from xalan dev team what they
> think about how Costin works in a project before making such comments on a
> public mailing list....
Funny, I haven't seen a single posting from Costin on the Xalan-Dev mailing
list since I joined in late November.
I also wouldn't categorize the Xalan project as a model project. Sure, it is
developed well, but I haven't see much of the discussion going on with
regards to following standard ASF project guidelines such simple things like
as asking for a vote before doing a release. All I see is Paul Dick@Lotus
doing announcements about releases. Where is the discussion happening?
> Also Costin is the only one on 3.x tree from Sun. All the others are from
> outside Sun. Just goes to show how WELL he works with a group of people
> that aren't even geographically co-located..
Actually, Costin is supposed to be outside of Sun with regards to Tomcat.
> As for the way the PMC works - I have had this discussion with James on
> more than one occasion - the pmc incase of xml and jakarta unlike the
> httpd project comprises of people who aren't the core developers... People
> who aren't working on the project get to make the decisions. From what I
> have heard the httpd on the other hand has the core developers as part of
> the pmc. That is the way it should be.... Maybe this should also be an
> issue that needs to be discussed in tomorrow's meeting....
Tomorrows meeting does not cover the XML project, so bringing XML related
stuff up here is moot.
However, lets look at PMC reality since you obviously aren't:
Anil and Craig and James and Pier are all members of the Jakarta PMC and
have commit access on the Tomcat project. That is also four votes from Sun
alone. Remember, it only takes 3 votes to pass a proposal.
In fact, I would argue that the Jakarta PMC is heavily biased towards Sun
with 4 of the 7 people working for Sun including the PMC president.
<http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html>
Given the fact that Sun also seems to control what people do and say on this
mailing list, I think the *real* issue here very clear.
At this point, I have lost confidence that the votes that Sun employees give
on this list are actual representations of what the person giving those
votes really believes in.
Scared yet?
>> You think that by fixing Tomcat 3.x to be re-factored code is a good thing.
>> I agree. However, it doesn't fall in line with continuing the development
>> indefinitely because major changes mean the potential for major bugs and
>> further support issues as well as a split project's resources.
>
> And a re-write doesn't bring most of these problems??
The history is what is important here. The fact of the matter is that if Sun
had not donated Tomcat 3.x, we would already be using a much more complete
Catalina as Craig had already started work on it and was pulled off from
working on it in order to support 3.x development. The fact that Catalina is
as far along as it is today is a testament to how amazing Craig is with
regards to the amount of really quality code he can write.
-jon
--
Honk if you love peace and quiet.
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