@Frederic,
I'm not very skilfull in English, and maybe I have made mistakes in
reading the posts. If so, excuse me and don't take in account what follows.
If not...
I am very sorry to tell i find your answer as a bad one, in many ways.
I am a social worker. And in social working we have a kind of rule that
says : "When someone has a problem, someone has a problem. When several
people have the same kind of problem, the group has a problem."
You know that Eric answer is not alone. You know that people, even
outside the French community, are saying : "there is a problem with the
guidelines, as written today, against the French Cadastre integration".
Maybe, and I can understand it, you don't follow the French list on this
topic. But there is a very big consensus in the French community to tell
: "There is a problem".
Yes, most of the French contributors have never had problems of messages
or blocking from the DWG. And it's happy ! I did not for myself.
But the French community, we can identify by taking part of discussions
on the list, at least reading it, by exchanging emails, messages... the
French community, that is narrowest that French contributors, is very
concerned by the problem of the guidelines and appliance of them.
You can't tell that, because I have not had messages or blocks, I not
concerned. I have not integrated any buildings those last days, even a
single village because I'm I feed up with this situation, a kind of
stroke ! And I'm sure I'm not alone ! So you can't tell that if the
"overwhelming majority of the French OSM community has never had an
issue with DWG", there is no problem.
You can't tell that Eric is instrumentalising people. Eric is speaking
from his own : "I am having trouble", "In my impression"... But I know
that his point of view is widely shared in the French community. And
Eric had never spoken of a "French community against the DWG" battle.
Who is speaking like that ?
Yes, some people have created a second account. But you can't use it for
saying that it is THE solution. Or you are deaf and blind to what
happens beside those cases.
A pity, Frederic, you " have never once seen any offer of compromise by
you or others" ! They were questions asked from French contributors that
still are without answer, even the simple answer : "we don't have the
answer, but we have understood your question.", "we don't have the
solution, but we have understood there is a problem".
There were proposals of rewriting rules, and discuting them.
There were candidates for being involved to the DWG.
What is the answer of the DWG to those questions, those proposal, those
candidates ?
Because someone who has got more responsibilities must be more
responsible, you must be more responsible in you answer. And I have
found nothing saying : "OK, I have heard." only something like "pass
your way". This kind of answer would be acceptable from someone else.
But you are member of the DWG. And it is a pity to get this kind of
no-answer to a real question.
In spite of the great respect I have to every one working hard for OSM,
and I know you are, I'm sorry to say that your answer is wrong.
I took me a long time to write this post, i'm not skilfull in English.
And the debate has followed apart that I not read.
FrViPofm
Le 18/10/2012 10:41, Frederik Ramm a écrit :
Eric,
I have the impression that you are trying to make a large conflict
out of a small issue. The overwhelming majority of the French OSM
community has never had an issue with DWG, yet you are trying to cast
this into a "the French community against the DWG" battle.
You are even instrumentalising those who would, on their own, not have
any problem with following the existing guidelines and creating a
separate account; they would prefer to simply play by the rules but
you make them into your pawns by telling them "no! the French
community suggests that you do not create a separate account for
imports, just ignore what those DWG people tell you!"
You're talking as if you want to solve the issue amicably but you
don't; when you talk of "sustained efforts" then these efforts are
basically concentrated on getting it exactly your way. In this whole
discussion I have never once seen any offer of compromise by you or
others.
Your talk of "anti-social behaviour" is unacceptable, and your attempt
at singling out Paul Norman as your scapegoat is just as bad. If Paul
weren't blocking users who violate the rules then I would, or another
member of DWG.
I have the impression that you are fighting a personal vendetta here
because you were personally asked to follow the separate-import
guideline, you rejected that, and you got blocked. Now it's ok if
you're unhappy and you're free to say that, but in attempt at styling
this into a "the whole French community is on my side, I have done
nothing wrong" battle you are actually abusing the French community
for your cause.
The separate import account rule is not a "proposed" rule and it is
valid for France just as it is valid for any other place. I would
sincerely ask every member of the French community to create a
separate import account if they plan to import large quantities of
Cadastre data - Eric is now using an account named "Marcussacapuces91
- Cadastre" and I think that is a good and useful convention.
(I say "large quantities" - if someone just imports his local city
quarter then certainly nobody is going to complain.)
Bye
Frederik
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