Thank you, Ture: an excellent example and a great brief overview. From my
perspective (if I were more of an OSM beginner), I might ask about the example
of "torp:" might creating a tag like building=torp seem like it's on a good
track? Maybe not, as the value is a Swedish word, but there is an historical
cognate in British English (more OSM-like for tagging purposes) of "thorpe"
(maybe with an e at the end, maybe not) which came from, but doesn't really
mean the same thing all by itself in English, more of a suffix in a
village-name (like Scunthorpe or Maplethorp). Looking at a picture of a "torp"
in Sweden, and as a native (US) English speaker, I imagine a new tag for this
might look something like building=summer_house or building=swedish_cottage or
something along those lines that identify it as a quite-specific thing (as a
distinct value of the building key). So, this can be done in OSM: such things
do happen.
Regarding "bogs, slopes, mountains..." I hear loud and clear that there are
challenges with the latter two. The first, "bog" seems straightforward:
natural=wetland + wetland=bog (and this combination does seem to be rendered in
Carto in a specific way, distinct from wetland=marsh; the wikis display these
differences, even at different zoom levels).
For slopes, I have noticed that "natural=ridge" has begun to render in Carto
recently, but that's not quite the same as slope, but might begin to help if
you must use a tag that renders today. For mountains, I understand that this
is NOT the same as natural=peak, so I think this mail-list would be interested
to hear how a natural=peak and a mountain (as understood in Sweden, or perhaps
"meant" on a map that calls such a thing what it calls it in Swedish on a map
like Terrängkartan). It seems those distinctions could be made in the form of
an (early) wiki (if such tagging began, because it was well-formed enough to
quickly draw up a wiki for it) or a proposal, which also seems it could be
straightforward to write and gain approval. There was a tag for natural=arete
("a thin, almost knife-like, ridge of rock which is typically formed when two
glaciers erode parallel U-shaped valleys") which became approved and then began
to render. (I had never heard of this, but when I read the wiki, I thought
"OK, that simply means I've never heard of this, but it's real, so let's define
it, document it and tag it). So, this process is established and can happen
for "swedish_mountain" (I'm making up an obviously unreal tag, but calling it
in Swedish or maybe an equivalent-to-British-English word if that's possible)
can open up possibilities for OSM can be the map Anders dreams of. I think it
can. With explanation, some process being followed and some time, it can.
Yes, it IS nice when OSM has distinctions where distinctions are actually
distinctions in the real world. Let's make them together as a community so we
can all share them!
SteveA
> On Dec 13, 2020, at 2:10 AM, Ture Pålsson via Tagging
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> 12 dec. 2020 kl. 16:18 skrev Anders Torger <[email protected]>:
>>
>> Indeed, place=locality seems to be a dead end, it's been misused quite much
>> and there's talks about removing it from OSM-Carto, and you can't render
>> good maps from it, so it's technically a poor concept as well.
>
> Around where I live (Stockholm), most place=locality seem to refer to old
> ”torp” [1] and other (at least historically) inhabited places. At least the
> classic ”Terrängkartan” (the ”official” paper maps of Sweden, sadly no longer
> in production) rendered those differently from pure terrain names (upright
> vs. italic font).
>
> Here in the lake Mälaren valley almost every square meter has been farmed at
> some point, so most names refer to settled places (or archaeological traces
> of them). Up north where I grew up, and where Anders seems to be mapping, you
> get a lot more names that refer to bogs, slopes, mountains and that sort of
> thing.
>
> It would be nice to have that distinction in OSM, too.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torp_(architecture)
>
>
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