Just using the entry for your place, do you really think that an entry like say
Swiss High GermanHärnösand makes sense? (Swiss High German is de-CH). Simon Am 27.03.2020 um 10:07 schrieb pang...@riseup.net: > Hi Simon. > > Do you have a link? The Municipality I live in has sensible names in > WD https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3240427 > > Does it matter to us in OSM if it "has the name"? I'm thinking that we > outsource all the naming to WD to deal with and fight over. > In OSM we could instead concentrate on e.g. what language codes to > display on osm.org e.g. name_osm=sv for a city with dominant Swedish > population and name_osm=se for a town/city where most are Sami. > In the case of double naming on the ground we could have something > like: name_osm= code1 / code2 > Where code1 is the e.g. the Welsh and code2 is the English name. > > The idea in these cases is the we get rid of all other name tags that > can be stored and curated better in WD. > > On March 25, 2020 10:48:45 PM GMT+01:00, Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> > wrote: > > Note that lots of the wikidata names are nonsense and are simply > derived from the wikipedia page name (which a wp page has to have, > but it doesn't imply that the object actually has a name in the > language of the wikipedia you are looking at). For example the > municipality I live in has a German and a Swiss-German name, it > -doesn't- have names in any of the other 31 languages that are listed. > > Simon > > Am 25.03.2020 um 11:00 schrieb pang...@riseup.net: >> Honestly I don't think it makes sense for OSM to have names at >> all on objects which has a Wikidata reference. We are just too >> small a community to keep this updated and it has little value to >> duplicate to the efforts made by others. >> If any names I suggest we have a bot autoupdating all name tags >> according to the values in Wikidata. If there is no Wikidata item >> it should be found/created. >> It really is'nt hard to populate a map with geographical data >> from OSM and query the names the user wants to see from WD. >> This offloads a huge burden as I see it. >> All our tools that currently invites our users to include a name >> could be adapted so that the user is aware that OSM is about >> geodata and names are for WD and best stored/updated there. >> If we allow a name to be set only when no qid we avoid the bulk >> of these problems. >> When a qid is set a bot could remove all names for languages >> already present in WD. >> >> On March 25, 2020 10:45:03 AM GMT+01:00, Andrew Hain >> <andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >> >> Why on earth would we not (excluding exceptional copyright >> issues) want to have lots of different name:XX tags? >> >> -- >> Andrew >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> >> *Sent:* 25 March 2020 09:26 >> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools >> <tagging@openstreetmap.org> >> *Subject:* [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for >> name:xx tags? >> >> Hi, >> >> the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM >> because while we >> defer to "local knowledge" as the highest-ranking source >> normally, this >> is not being done for name:xx tags. It is possible for no >> single citizen >> of the city of Karlsruhe to know its Russian name, but still >> a Russian >> name could exist. Who is the highest-ranking source for that? >> >> My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually >> represent a >> unique name in its own right; all others are either copies of >> the name >> tag ("this city does not have its own name in language XX but >> I want >> every city to have a name:xx tag so I'll just copy the name >> tag"), or >> transliterations (or, worst case, even literal translations). >> >> A while ago we had a longer discussion about Esperanto names; >> in that >> discussion, it was questioned whether Esperanto could be in >> the name tag >> but nobody disputed that adding name:eo tags is ok, even though >> Esperanto is an invented (or "constructed") language. >> >> Yesterday someone added a few dozen Klingon names to >> countries in OSM. I >> have reverted that because of a copyright issue, but I think >> we also >> need to discuss which languages we want to accept for name:xx >> tags. >> >> In my opinion, a name:xx tag should only be added if you can >> demonstrate >> that people natively speaking the living language xx are >> actually using >> this name for this entity. I think we have a very unhealthy >> inflation of >> names in OSM that are added by "single-purpose mappers" - >> they come in, >> stick a name:my-favourite-language tag onto everything, and >> go away >> again. Nobody knows if these names are even correct, and >> nobody cares >> for their maintenance. The country North Macedonia changed >> its name >> almost one year ago, yet roughly half of its ~ 170 name tags >> are still >> what they were before this change. Nobody cares; these names >> suggest a >> data richness that is not backed up by an actual living >> community that >> cares for them. >> >> What are your opinions on which languages should be accepted >> in name >> tags? What do you think about >> >> * niche constructed languages (say, FredLang which has 2 words I >> invented just now) >> * popular constructed languages (Klingon, Elvish) - note >> place names in >> these languages will often be algorithmically derived from >> the English >> or local name >> * "serious" constructed languages (Esperanto) >> * languages that once existed but are not natively spoken any >> more (Roman) >> * languages that are natively spoken but their speakers do >> not have >> their own name for the entity in question (instead they use >> the same >> name the locals use, possibly transcribed into a different >> alphabet) >> * ... >> >> Or if you don't have the time to think about this in detail, >> just answer >> the question: tlhIngan Hol - Hlja' or ghobe'? >> >> Bye >> Frederik >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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