I struggle with this issue as well. In Belgium we have a lot of "tavernes" (taverns) or "brasseries" (similar, but the word is translated from French in this case). The are very restaurant like, seated-service, quality food. Taverns also serve ice creams, sweet pancakes etc outside lunch hours. Furthermore, they also only serve drinks, unlike restaurants. They are really places where families goes on a Sunday afternoon, since they often have a playground for children as well (at least in the countryside). Restaurants only serve meals, it is not possible to go there and only have a drink. Should we tag the taverns with amenity=pub, food=yes or restaurant ?
Then you also have "cafés", as in french meaning of the word. They have to be tagged as pubs. (confusing for a non-English mapper:-) ) They only serve drinks and no food. (typically) On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:32 AM, Greg Troxel <g...@ir.bbn.com> wrote: > > Richard Welty <rwe...@averillpark.net> writes: > > > the common rule of thumb is counter service vs. table service. even > > so, there are occasional grey areas (e.g., at Hardees you order at > > the counter but they deliver to your table, still fast food in my book.) > > > > and it produces slightly quirky results, for example the most excellent > > deli Gershon's in Schenectady has table service but the most excellent > > deli Maurice's in Albany has counter service. they are otherwise very > > similar restaurants. it kind of makes you wish we didn't have fast_food > > and instead had detailed tags, as another suggested. > > (am way behind on my mail, and picked a semi-random note to reply to) > > As I see it, there are a few issues brought out by this discussion. My > $0.02: > > what people think "restaurant" means in English is not really relevant > to fast_food vs restaurant. Just because McDonald's meets wikipedia's > definition of restaurant does not make amenity=restaurant appropriate > - OSM has specific guidelines to split places that sell food into > multiple tags. > > Fundamentally, fast_food is a quality/value judgement. It implies a > degree of industrialization in the process. Ordering at a counter and > having it handed to you **more quickly than it should have taken to > prepare it** is a huge clue. > > amenity=restaurant implies that you sit at a table, order from > waitstaff, and have food delivered, always. This is fairly easy. > > amenity=cafe is a place where it isn't as formal as restaurant, but it > has actual food, and typically one will order at a counter and either > you get called to pick it up later, or it will be delivered, often to > your table identified by some number that you were handed when you > ordered. "actual food" is key here, and yes that's a value judgement > at the boundary. > > In Richard's example, I would put a nice deli with counter service as > cafe. That's not a dig, it's saying that it doesn't have seated > service. I expect high-quality food from something tagged amenity=cafe. > > Note that amenity=restaurant does not imply high-end food. It only > implies more or less that there is seated service and almost but not > quite implies that food is prepared (final steps anyway) to order, not > ahead of time on speculation that someone will appear. > > The really hard line is cafe vs fast_food. The true test is whether > people who appreciate food quality are willing to go (cafe) other than > under circumstances when they feel they really have to save time > (fast_food). There is no exact objective test for this difference. But > if it's a chain, or if foodie types look down on it, it's likely > fast_food. If it's a one-off and people think the food is good, it's > cafe. I realize that doesn't fit the OSM objectively-verifiable notion, > but that's how the world really is. > > The real issue is that what people who use maps want to know is whether > a place has decent food or factory food. That's IMHO why the cafe vs > fast_food distinction exists. > > Another way to look at the issue is that local mappers should decide. > I've been tagging places as fast_food, cafe and restaurant. I'm not > aware of anyone changing my tags or messaging me about the choice. So I > don't see much actual dispute. > > <us-centric-content> > > For me, the only difficult call has been Starbucks, which I couldn't > remember but I looked and I did call it cafe, vs an indie coffeeshop, > which I definitely would put as cafe. Dunkin Donuts is fast_food, as is > Chipotle, Qdoba and Subway. A one-off breakfast place that isn't super > nice (typical 0530 opening omelette shop) I still put as restaurant > because you are seated and have waitstaff. > > Aside from Starbucks this has been easy. If someone challenged me that > Starbuck's should be fast food because it's really hard to objectively > tell from Dunkin Donuts I would probably concede quickly. Maybe I'll > change the one I tagged after this note anyway :-) Other things I would > need to hear a persuasive argument why I was wrong. > > </> > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >
_______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
