sorry, this: Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@repentance-prayer Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@bathsheba-intro
would be better as: Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@musical-instruction Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@bathsheba-intro Chris On 10 July 2013 22:25, Chris Burrell <ch...@burrell.me.uk> wrote: > I don't think an explicit superset is required. An implicit one yes. By > that I mean that if you allow a versification X to map to the known KJV > Versification with parts (say 'a' 'b', or 'firstSentence', > 'secondSentence', etc. - i.e. arbitrary parts), then it means you can go > from X to Y via the KJV without losing resolution. > > For the Psalms all I was intending to have is for example (taken example > from memory for Leningrad - so might be the wrong psalm). > > Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@a > Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@b > Psalm.51.3-21=Psalm.51.1-19 > > Meaning Leningrad (left) maps to the KJV verses (right). The part suffixes > are only used if you are going from Leningrad through the KJV to say > Synodal. If the Synodal were to declare exactly the same breakdown as > above, also using the parts @a and @b it would mean you could end go from > Psalm.50.1 to Psalm.50.1 as opposed to Psalm.51.1=>Psalm.51.0=>Psalm.51.1-2 > > In the above, the superset of keys really is: > Psalm.51.0@a, Psalm51.0@b, and Psalm.51.1, Psalm.51.2, etc. > > You could obviously chose more meaningful part names say: > Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@repentance-prayer > Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@bathsheba-intro > > Or obviously, just keep track somewhere of what those parts really mean in > practice. > > I think in terms of displays, there are really many options. Two things > I'm looking at: > > * warning the user if for some reason we're displaying more verse ranges > than the original passage... In other words, if we've broken 1 range into > 2, and therefore omitted displaying some verses (because they don't map to > the original passage), then we warn the user to say "it's not an error, and > you're not seeing everything on purpose). The alternative is to somehow > decide to show the missing verses - and then the complication is where do > you put the missing verse in the verse order. > > * warning the user if you're displaying a verse more than once (nice to > tell the user, hey, because of versification issues, this verse shouldn't > be there twice, but we think it's beneficial to display twice because it > really does map to both source verses). > > > * Absent verses, I'm leaving blank at the moment. > > Chris > > > > On 10 July 2013 17:02, Костя Маслюк <kostyamasl...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sorry, when i try to imagine your conception of 'superset', i found >> verses scattered all around the room after translation procedure. Have you >> any visual representation of what you would like to achieve in final, or >> would you make such a table by your self? >> >> Should verses content be always equivalent in parallel view? >> >> What a text should fill the gaps? This is most confusing to me, module >> simply does not contain corresponding content, haven't clue what it could >> be... >> >> If we start to translating ListKey superset and displaying its content, >> we can got long enough recursion, for example in Psalms, all the book will >> be displayed when user request verse in chapter #3. >> >> >> I have added rough draft of Parallel display with respect of av11n >> mappings in BibleTime Mini: >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/11a3dvdz0yu8xf3/boundle.zip >> >> >> >> 2013/7/4 Troy A. Griffitts <scr...@crosswire.org> >> >> Hi guys. The questions that need answers in this thread are logically >>> complex and are one of the reasons we haven't finalized any additions to >>> the core SWORD library to support this-- though I greatly appreciate the >>> contributions made by Костя. >>> >>> Take, for example our standard 4 Bible web display preset for "OT >>> Scholar", at Daniel chapter 3, around veres 23: >>> >>> http://crosswire.org/study/**parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=** >>> NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&**key=Dan.3.23#cv<http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&key=Dan.3.23#cv> >>> >>> How should this look? >>> >>> The problem, for the uninitiated, is that The Prayer of Azariah and the >>> Song of the Three Jews in the LXX is inserted between what we traditionally >>> think of as verses 23 and 24. This makes verse 24 in the KJV very different >>> content than what should be verse 24 in the LXX (our current LXX displayed >>> from the link above does not include Apocryphal content)-- verse 24 in the >>> LXX being the first part of the Apocryphal content, thus verse 91 in the >>> LXX picking back up where verse 24, in say the NASB (without the apocryphal >>> insertion), continues. >>> >>> The web interface above always displays in windows of 1 chapter. Thus >>> the user has asked for Chapter 3 of Daniel, centered on verse 23. >>> >>> There are a few questions to answer. >>> >>> What if they had asked for verse 24? >>> >>> What content do we show? >>> >>> Use case: The user is a protestant pastor, has chosen NASB as his >>> primary Bible, and is interested in seeing the parallel verses to the NASB >>> in the other texts. He is not interested in seeing apocryphal insertions. >>> He primarily cares about the NASB and only glances at the content from the >>> other modules when interested in seeing the parallel. >>> >>> This is how the web frontend, and all current SWORD based frontends >>> *should* currently work with no code changes, with the v11n translation >>> facilities currently designed in the engine. It uses the first module as >>> the "master" and iterated its key and pulls the equivalent verses from the >>> other modules. The current facility in the engine allows for: >>> >>> lxx->setKey(nasb->getKey()) >>> >>> resulting in the LXX being positioned to the equivalent verse (e.g., v91 >>> from nasb v24)-- if translation tables (for example from Костя) were in >>> place. >>> >>> But this use case, while likely the most dominant, is not the most >>> scholarly. A scholar would likely wish to see a *superset* of all verses >>> from all displayed parallel Bibles, inserting gaps where they should go in >>> the other text which do not contain the verses. >>> >>> Not too hard to imagine, but what is the programmer-friendly API >>> interface for this? Harder to imagine. You can't simply choose one of the >>> modules to iterate. >>> Possibly: >>> >>> ListKey superset; >>> superset << kjv->getKey() << nasb->getKey() << lxx->getKey() << >>> wlc->getKey(); >>> >>> then one could iterate the superset listkey. >>> >>> This would leave the work of figuring out where the gaps should go up to >>> ListKey, or something in the translation system in VerseKey which backs >>> ListKey. >>> >>> It's a complex problem, but we haven't even talked about the issue of >>> reordered content. Sometime Romans 16:25-27a (obviously excluding the >>> subscriptio) is located after Romans 14:23. This is an example of >>> reordering. It doesn't give problems from our "chapter window display" >>> because the reordering is across different chapters and you could still >>> pick your poison from the 2 choices above for display logic, but what about >>> display windows which allow more than a single chapter, like BibleDesktop? >>> Now the question arises. If you've chosen to build a superset, where do the >>> gaps go? You could reasonably add them to either place (after Romans 14:23 >>> in the modules which don't include the doxology here or after Romans 16:24 >>> for modules which don't include the doxology here). How do you decide? How >>> should the program decide? >>> >>> Lot's of questions and input we all need to give and a working proof of >>> concept for at least a single frontend before we commit to something for >>> everyone to use in the engine. >>> >>> Obviously not a 1.7.x issue, but feel free to continue to give input. >>> >>> Troy >>> >>> >>> >>> On 07/04/2013 03:26 PM, David Haslam wrote: >>> >>>> And (for example) if you wish to query the whole of the JPS module >>>> using book >>>> names, it will not do to specify *Gen-Mal*. >>>> >>>> You'd need to remember that in the Tanakh, the last book is *II >>>> Chronicles*. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.** >>>> nabble.com/Versifications-and-**verse-order-tp4652697p4652712.**html<http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Versifications-and-verse-order-tp4652697p4652712.html> >>>> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel<http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel> >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel<http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel> >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > >
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