We have a design in place which allows for the code example I previously
mentioned:
lxx->setKey(nasb->getKey())
The engine recognized that the versifications are different and calls a
facility to do the translation. We have not finalized on this facility
yet. As also mentioned, ????? has submitted an implementation (long long
ago) available here (not sure if this is his latest version, as he is
using it now in Bibletime Mobile):
http://crosswire.org/~kalemas/work/v11nmapping/
I am happy for his submission. We would like to include it or something
based off of it, but before we finalize something in the engine for
everyone to use, I want to be sure we handle the basic issues mentioned
in my preceding email on this. I am not convinced I have mentioned all
issues with implementing a parallel display frontend because I have not
yet tried to implement a parallel display frontend which tries to
implement the 'superset' view described in my previous email.
Chris, you are in an ideal position to give feedback on this-- though it
won't be as helpful for me or the solution within the SWORD engine,
because I'm sure JSword has a completely different facility for
versification classes internally. But regardless, your experience and
feedback are invaluable as you drudge through this task. Let us know
what you decide.
Troy
On 07/04/2013 05:29 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:
I'm guess I've misunderstood as Ps.51 shows the wrong alignment
between Hebrew and English for the first two verses... What are these
"translation facilities currently designed in the engine"?
Chris
On 4 July 2013 16:24, Chris Burrell <ch...@burrell.me.uk
<mailto:ch...@burrell.me.uk>> wrote:
I'm afraid, I'm not sure I follow. The screenshot looks ok, but
then I don't read Greek or Hebrew so I don't really know.
Are you saying Sword already has translation from 1 versification
to another transparently, by "the v11n translation facilities
currently designed in the engine"? From previous threads, I
thought that was one major thing that was still being worked on.
So you already do have all the mappings to convert from one
versification to another?
I'm confused!
Chris
On 4 July 2013 16:02, Troy A. Griffitts <scr...@crosswire.org
<mailto:scr...@crosswire.org>> wrote:
Hi guys. The questions that need answers in this thread are
logically complex and are one of the reasons we haven't
finalized any additions to the core SWORD library to support
this-- though I greatly appreciate the contributions made by
?????.
Take, for example our standard 4 Bible web display preset for
"OT Scholar", at Daniel chapter 3, around veres 23:
http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&key=Dan.3.23#cv
How should this look?
The problem, for the uninitiated, is that The Prayer of
Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews in the LXX is inserted
between what we traditionally think of as verses 23 and 24.
This makes verse 24 in the KJV very different content than
what should be verse 24 in the LXX (our current LXX displayed
from the link above does not include Apocryphal content)--
verse 24 in the LXX being the first part of the Apocryphal
content, thus verse 91 in the LXX picking back up where verse
24, in say the NASB (without the apocryphal insertion), continues.
The web interface above always displays in windows of 1
chapter. Thus the user has asked for Chapter 3 of Daniel,
centered on verse 23.
There are a few questions to answer.
What if they had asked for verse 24?
What content do we show?
Use case: The user is a protestant pastor, has chosen NASB as
his primary Bible, and is interested in seeing the parallel
verses to the NASB in the other texts. He is not interested in
seeing apocryphal insertions. He primarily cares about the
NASB and only glances at the content from the other modules
when interested in seeing the parallel.
This is how the web frontend, and all current SWORD based
frontends *should* currently work with no code changes, with
the v11n translation facilities currently designed in the
engine. It uses the first module as the "master" and iterated
its key and pulls the equivalent verses from the other
modules. The current facility in the engine allows for:
lxx->setKey(nasb->getKey())
resulting in the LXX being positioned to the equivalent verse
(e.g., v91 from nasb v24)-- if translation tables (for example
from ?????) were in place.
But this use case, while likely the most dominant, is not the
most scholarly. A scholar would likely wish to see a
*superset* of all verses from all displayed parallel Bibles,
inserting gaps where they should go in the other text which do
not contain the verses.
Not too hard to imagine, but what is the programmer-friendly
API interface for this? Harder to imagine. You can't simply
choose one of the modules to iterate.
Possibly:
ListKey superset;
superset << kjv->getKey() << nasb->getKey() << lxx->getKey()
<< wlc->getKey();
then one could iterate the superset listkey.
This would leave the work of figuring out where the gaps
should go up to ListKey, or something in the translation
system in VerseKey which backs ListKey.
It's a complex problem, but we haven't even talked about the
issue of reordered content. Sometime Romans 16:25-27a
(obviously excluding the subscriptio) is located after Romans
14:23. This is an example of reordering. It doesn't give
problems from our "chapter window display" because the
reordering is across different chapters and you could still
pick your poison from the 2 choices above for display logic,
but what about display windows which allow more than a single
chapter, like BibleDesktop? Now the question arises. If you've
chosen to build a superset, where do the gaps go? You could
reasonably add them to either place (after Romans 14:23 in the
modules which don't include the doxology here or after Romans
16:24 for modules which don't include the doxology here). How
do you decide? How should the program decide?
Lot's of questions and input we all need to give and a working
proof of concept for at least a single frontend before we
commit to something for everyone to use in the engine.
Obviously not a 1.7.x issue, but feel free to continue to give
input.
Troy
On 07/04/2013 03:26 PM, David Haslam wrote:
And (for example) if you wish to query the whole of the
JPS module using book
names, it will not do to specify *Gen-Mal*.
You'd need to remember that in the Tanakh, the last book
is *II Chronicles*.
--
View this message in context:
http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Versifications-and-verse-order-tp4652697p4652712.html
Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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