Thanks for the feedback, gents. I understand that the time delivery requirements are based on the assumption that the detection system activation and sprinkler operation will be simultaneous, but for practical purposes I think the heat detection is supposed to operate sooner than a sprinkler head (lower temperature, faster RTI).
In the case of this project, we've got high-temperature, standard-response sprinklers, and I think the LHD is rated for 135 or 155 degrees. I think we're good as far as that goes. Now, with regard to the delay timer in the releasing panel: I was told that it could not be set to zero (not sure why), but that it could be set as low as 1 second. So, we're going to go with that and I think we should be good. Thanks again. Kyle Montgomery [cid:[email protected]] Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co. 21605 N. Central Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85024 Direct: 623.580.7820 Cell: 602.763.4736 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Ken Wagoner <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2024 8:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [External][Sprinklerforum] Re: Double Interlock Pre-Action Systems Well noted Anthony, and of course you're correct. apologies to all, Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 500 West Mechanic Street Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235 Phone: (760) 745-6181 Visit the website<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1> On 9/24/2024 10:44 AM, Anthony Carrizosa wrote: Ken, NFPA 13 does mention that due to the double interlock of the system the water delivery is required within 60 seconds. This requirement would necessitate the detection system and the sprinkler operating simultaneously to achieve this time limit. See [cid:[email protected]] One could use the RTI of the fire sprinkler and compare that to the detection system RTI to see if they are compatible. Now the potter PFC 4410RC does mention it has some built in discharge timers for the releasing circuits. [cid:[email protected]] Given that NFPA 13 requires the 60 second water delivery time it would behoove the sprinkler designer to verify with the alarm design to assure that the RTI and these delay timers do not affect the water delivery time. Just my two cents. Anthony Carrizosa Project Manager | Fire Protection 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office Dir: 253-341-4593 [cid:[email protected]] From: Ken Wagoner <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2024 7:33 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Double Interlock Pre-Action Systems Kyle, What Craig said. There is no text in -13 or -72 of which I'm aware that specifies time requirements for electrical detection to send a signal to the releasing panel, or that it must be received by that panel prior to the fire sprinkler operating. Additionally, there is no text I'm aware of which specifies a sequence of which detection has to occur first. There may indeed be a built-in delay in the LHD. Is it listed for use in support of a preaction fire sprinkler system? sincerely, Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 500 West Mechanic Street Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235 Phone: (760) 745-6181 Visit the website<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1> On 9/24/2024 8:37 AM, Prahl, Craig wrote: In a DIPA system you HAVE to have both a sprinkler open and a detection device go into alarm. It doesn't matter in what order that would occur. The DIPA system is more for prevention of discharge until it's glaringly obvious that a fire is in progress. Typical for freezers, Data Centers, sometimes electrical rooms when the sparky guys are really paranoid, etc. So, if the Linear Heat Detection (LHD) goes into alarm, it will transmit a signal to the DIPA releasing panel but nothing more is going to happen until a sprinkler opens. Only when the LHD is in alarm AND a sprinkler opens is the PA valve going to open, Any delay in the LHD signal is not going to be of any great relevance if the system is operating properly. There is no calculation or specified time frame in any code or Standard. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME - Special Hazards | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS From: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2024 7:48 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Double Interlock Pre-Action Systems I guess what I'm really asking is what is the difference in response time for linear heat detection versus my sprinkler heads? In this case, it's protecting cold storage, so it's a standard-response, high-temperature sprinkler. -Kyle M From: Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Monday, September 23, 2024 4:45 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Double Interlock Pre-Action Systems It's my understanding that the premise behind double interlock pre-action systems is that they should be designed in such a way that, in the event of a fire, the detection (heat detector, flame detector, smoke detector, linear heat detection, etc.) should activate before a sprinkler head activates. Is there any formula or rule of thumb about how long the detection should take to activate versus how long the sprinkler should take to activate? I'm working on a project and the alarm guy is telling me that there is a built-in activation delay in the releasing panel between when the linear heat detection sends a signal and when the releasing panel activates the solenoid valve. Is that normal? I'm wondering if that delay will actually delay the activation time of my pre-action valve, or if the delay is short enough that it is less than the normal time delta between linear heat detection activation and sprinkler head activation. For example, if the built-in delay in the releasing panel is 15 seconds, but the delta between LHD activation and sprinkler head activation is normally more than 15 second, then there wouldn't be any tangible delay in the activation (opening) of the pre-action valve. Kyle Montgomery [cid:[email protected]] Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co. 21605 N. Central Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85024 Direct: 623.580.7820 Cell: 602.763.4736 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. 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