I have used, and seen others, successfully use a 2" NPT to 2.5" Nh adaptor on the Main Drain outlet and run 10' of hose to a 1.75" or smaller Pitotless Nozzle Hose Monster to measure the water flow. This can give you an accurate water flow measurement.
PATRICK SPILLANE, CFPS Director of Technical Products and Services Dean of Hose Monster University o: 888-202-9987 d: 847-598-0186 ext. 704 www.hosemonster.com<http://www.hosemonster.com/> [signatureImage] ________________________________ From: Joe Meyer <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 11:23 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test Just catching up on this - thanks for the referral Brian! The drain estimator is only calculating the maximum possible flow from the orifice opening, for the purposes of accommodating the worst-case flow for drain sizing. The calculation is only incorporating pressure at an open-orifice (like the calc for the side outlet of a hydrant), but not the constriction that the main drain pipe and fittings have, nor the conversion from a total pressure to a normal pressure that the riser gauge is measuring. Coincidentally (truly, weird) posted on this topic today: https://www.meyerfire.com/blog/the-trouble-with-estimating-main-drain-flow The best way to verify the actual flow is to measure the flow itself (a bucket test or a pitot measurement), unless we build something to account for the main drain constriction and the conversion between normal and total pressure. Joe [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4w8V7wRmQweRoG0wzY1XiNWZMS3XP2cbBEB4tDJPicDAe-zpp1HFGE4s4vNn8CjGqShTYlKnS8] MEYERFIRE, LLC D: (636) 299-0339 E: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> W: MeyerFire.com<http://MeyerFire.com> / MeyerFPE.com<http://www.MeyerFPE.com> <http://www.MeyerFPE.com> Licensed: AR, CA, FL, IA, IL, MO, WI On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 11:14 AM, Craig Prahl <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Maybe, maybe not. You can get 775 out of a 2.5” hydrant outlet. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – Special Hazards | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS From: Travis Mack <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 12:09 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test 775 gpm seems quite high coming out of a 2" pipe. I would be skeptical of that number. Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | Instructor / Support 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mepcad.com/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!DESJQ7V4PW_ELv_hHW6JiceQ6AdeIMAcg5xv9AW6IjUapgf2gwOcv9FuTn62-0tbWDn4y7QS_JB0m0Qt$> | m: 480.547.9348| Whatspp: +14805479348 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD ________________________________ From: Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 9:07 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test Thanks Brian that’s helpful! Based on that the main drain is flowing 775 GPM Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 95037 P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 F-(408) 776-1590 To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: www.norcalfire.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.norcalfire.com/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!DESJQ7V4PW_ELv_hHW6JiceQ6AdeIMAcg5xv9AW6IjUapgf2gwOcv9FuTn62-0tbWDn4y7QS_Blgw98V$> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documents. From: Brian Harris <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:42 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test Meyer Fire has an estimating tool for Main Drain test you might find helpful. Thank you, Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. From: Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 11:38 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test No clue but it gushes and its a lot of water….. To get that info we would have to put a PITOT on it Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 95037 P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 F-(408) 776-1590 To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: www.norcalfire.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__linkprotect.cudasvc.com_url-3Fa-3Dhttps-253a-252f-252fwww.norcalfire.com-26c-3DE-2C1-2CmklhcZzHoZPvChftzTitLgSMovE7oiIrLcVJlji0PrQzj916CayrBN15afOxmaG7kQOQFIAuiV7o-5F4S6PXK2LUIkm3W28F5UfdxAZCfgXZ8QFQ-2C-2C-26typo-3D1-26ancr-5Fadd-3D1&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=hLXh1DXRDwJ3oz4y7iNesSsetYhUUV0wawfPGfwmYxQ&m=4MgkwyfUkSqSH5EthDszEx6bxHotseuzJPrGd0B3SN54F7kWYQO0OjgjvIOUm5gX&s=BFMUf-8lHBk9imzNQGhrrjN2JKb5_XtpjVjUokZkiTM&e=> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documents. From: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:26 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test Do you think, at 37 psi, that you’re pushing more than 361 GPM through that 2” drain? Kyle Montgomery [cid:[email protected]] Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co. 21605 N. Central Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85024 Direct: 623.580.7820 Cell: 602.763.4736 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:17 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test 6” feed in the stairwell with a 4” sectional and 2” drain Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 95037 P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 F-(408) 776-1590 To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: www.norcalfire.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__linkprotect.cudasvc.com_url-3Fa-3Dhttps-253a-252f-252fwww.norcalfire.com-26c-3DE-2C1-2Cwou81MxbTNFOb5Wrybk6hAM1TkdVtQn18-2DDS-5FMAvJT2hcqP7CydJobiIvDjYg2PpsvNscDJReCUEWlRWkvoSKX2sfg906Fxcig4N-5F4-5F4GicLUDc-2C-26typo-3D1-26ancr-5Fadd-3D1&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=hLXh1DXRDwJ3oz4y7iNesSsetYhUUV0wawfPGfwmYxQ&m=4MgkwyfUkSqSH5EthDszEx6bxHotseuzJPrGd0B3SN54F7kWYQO0OjgjvIOUm5gX&s=vCmAO1iPPQj_ZKR0i-3jV35t8lPjv4qxQiEAuTfrZPM&e=> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documents. From: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:12 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test What size riser and drain? From: Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:07 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [External][Sprinklerforum] Re: main drain test Demand is 361 gpm with 45 PSI @ BOR. Main drain test they are getting 37 residual Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 95037 P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 F-(408) 776-1590 To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: www.norcalfire.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__linkprotect.cudasvc.com_url-3Fa-3Dhttps-253a-252f-252fwww.norcalfire.com-26c-3DE-2C1-2Cypo-2DhmJif318ePaAIPvyejzM7sa42vkXcVSWq2hma8JCF-5FsYNcgOt9-2D58KHlgTq5dY4ZmdHUzWUmfQrxUZJ-5Fn6I1cvAMB-2DCvVk-2DH08hQ3FPMEdoavQ-2C-2C-26typo-3D1-26ancr-5Fadd-3D1&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=hLXh1DXRDwJ3oz4y7iNesSsetYhUUV0wawfPGfwmYxQ&m=4MgkwyfUkSqSH5EthDszEx6bxHotseuzJPrGd0B3SN54F7kWYQO0OjgjvIOUm5gX&s=4epqfbB5mlpZ6nuXQESD6qKK1XFs9Rqt7bblZ_Tb_lE&e=> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documents. From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2024 7:55 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: main drain test Assuming that the demand from the calc area is for OH 1or 2 (and no inside hose), your demand is somewhere between 250 and 300 gpm If you modeled a full 1,500 sq ft, no? And what is the residual pressure required? Steve Leyton Sent from my "Smart" Phone, so apologies for any typos or voice-to-text corruptions. -------- Original message -------- From: Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: 9/11/24 7:19 AM (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] main drain test We have a jurisdiction that failed our final inspection because the residual pressure during the main drain test doesn’t match our BOR residual pressure from the hydraulic calcs for and OH extended coverage system. Am I missing something? I don’t see how the residual pressure on a main drain test has anything to do with the residual pressure from our calcs…..I was always under the impression main drain tests were to verify there hasn’t been a been a drastic change to the supply . This was an existing parking garage where they added solar panels on the top level so we added a sectional riser @ the top floor and added the new system. The fire department just keeps saying to upsize the riser from the 1st floor to the 4th floor which literally does nothing to my calcs. The building owner has spent 10’s of thousands of dollars flushing the UG, inspecting the UG for obstructions, paid for additional flow test and serviced the back flow. We are at a complete loss on what else to do as the fire department is adamant that’s the main drain test has to match the hydraulic calcs…..anyone ever come across a situation like this with a jurisdiction? Any suggestions? Rocci Cetani III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 95037 P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 F-(408) 776-1590 To help better serve you. 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