Just catching up on this - thanks for the referral Brian! The drain estimator is only calculating the *maximum *possible flow from the orifice opening, for the purposes of accommodating the worst-case flow for drain sizing. The calculation is only incorporating pressure at an open-orifice (like the calc for the side outlet of a hydrant), but not the constriction that the main drain pipe and fittings have, nor the conversion from a total pressure to a normal pressure that the riser gauge is measuring.
Coincidentally (truly, weird) posted on this topic today: https://www.meyerfire.com/blog/the-trouble-with-estimating-main-drain-flow The best way to verify the actual flow is to measure the flow itself (a bucket test or a pitot measurement), unless we build something to account for the main drain constriction and the conversion between normal and total pressure. Joe *MEYERFIRE, LLC* *D: *(636) 299-0339 *E: *[email protected] *W:* MeyerFire.com / MeyerFPE.com <http://www.MeyerFPE.com> <http://www.MeyerFPE.com> Licensed: AR, CA, FL, IA, IL, MO, WI On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 11:14 AM, Craig Prahl <[email protected]> wrote: > Maybe, maybe not. You can get 775 out of a 2.5” hydrant outlet. > > > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – Special Hazards | craig. > [email protected] | www.jacobs.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> > > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS > > > > > > *From:* Travis Mack <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 12:09 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test > > > > 775 gpm seems quite high coming out of a 2" pipe. I would be skeptical of > that number. > > > > > > Travis Mack, SET > > *M.E.P.CAD* | Instructor / Support > > 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 > > www.mepcad.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mepcad.com/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!DESJQ7V4PW_ELv_hHW6JiceQ6AdeIMAcg5xv9AW6IjUapgf2gwOcv9FuTn62-0tbWDn4y7QS_JB0m0Qt$> > | > *m: 480.547.9348*|* Whatspp: +14805479348* > > *Email: [email protected] <[email protected]>* > > > > *AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD* > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 9:07 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test > > > > Thanks Brian that’s helpful! Based on that the main drain is flowing 775 > GPM > > > > *Rocci Cetani III, **CET* > > *Senior Designer* > > *Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III* > > > > > > *Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.* > > 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > > Morgan Hill, CA 95037 > > P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 > > F-(408) 776-1590 > > > > To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: > > www.norcalfire.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.norcalfire.com/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!DESJQ7V4PW_ELv_hHW6JiceQ6AdeIMAcg5xv9AW6IjUapgf2gwOcv9FuTn62-0tbWDn4y7QS_Blgw98V$> > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may > contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information > is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you > are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to > deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the > contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to > arrange for return of the documents. > > > > *From:* Brian Harris <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:42 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test > > > > Meyer Fire has an estimating tool for Main Drain test you might find > helpful. > > > > Thank you, > > > > *Brian Harris, CET* > > BVS Systems Inc. > > > > *From:* Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 11:38 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test > > > > No clue but it gushes and its a lot of water….. To get that info we would > have to put a PITOT on it > > > > *Rocci Cetani III, **CET* > > *Senior Designer* > > *Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III* > > > > > > *Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.* > > 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > > Morgan Hill, CA 95037 > > P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 > > F-(408) 776-1590 > > > > To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: > > www.norcalfire.com > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__linkprotect.cudasvc.com_url-3Fa-3Dhttps-253a-252f-252fwww.norcalfire.com-26c-3DE-2C1-2CmklhcZzHoZPvChftzTitLgSMovE7oiIrLcVJlji0PrQzj916CayrBN15afOxmaG7kQOQFIAuiV7o-5F4S6PXK2LUIkm3W28F5UfdxAZCfgXZ8QFQ-2C-2C-26typo-3D1-26ancr-5Fadd-3D1&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=hLXh1DXRDwJ3oz4y7iNesSsetYhUUV0wawfPGfwmYxQ&m=4MgkwyfUkSqSH5EthDszEx6bxHotseuzJPrGd0B3SN54F7kWYQO0OjgjvIOUm5gX&s=BFMUf-8lHBk9imzNQGhrrjN2JKb5_XtpjVjUokZkiTM&e=> > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may > contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information > is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you > are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to > deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the > contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to > arrange for return of the documents. > > > > *From:* Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:26 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test > > > > Do you think, at 37 psi, that you’re pushing more than 361 GPM through > that 2” drain? > > > > *Kyle Montgomery* > > > > *Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.* > > *21605 N. Central Ave.* > > *Phoenix, AZ 85024* > > *Direct: 623.580.7820* > > *Cell: 602.763.4736* > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > *From:* Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:17 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test > > > > 6” feed in the stairwell with a 4” sectional and 2” drain > > > > *Rocci Cetani III, **CET* > > *Senior Designer* > > *Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III* > > > > > > *Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.* > > 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > > Morgan Hill, CA 95037 > > P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 > > F-(408) 776-1590 > > > > To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: > > www.norcalfire.com > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__linkprotect.cudasvc.com_url-3Fa-3Dhttps-253a-252f-252fwww.norcalfire.com-26c-3DE-2C1-2Cwou81MxbTNFOb5Wrybk6hAM1TkdVtQn18-2DDS-5FMAvJT2hcqP7CydJobiIvDjYg2PpsvNscDJReCUEWlRWkvoSKX2sfg906Fxcig4N-5F4-5F4GicLUDc-2C-26typo-3D1-26ancr-5Fadd-3D1&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=hLXh1DXRDwJ3oz4y7iNesSsetYhUUV0wawfPGfwmYxQ&m=4MgkwyfUkSqSH5EthDszEx6bxHotseuzJPrGd0B3SN54F7kWYQO0OjgjvIOUm5gX&s=vCmAO1iPPQj_ZKR0i-3jV35t8lPjv4qxQiEAuTfrZPM&e=> > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may > contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information > is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you > are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to > deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the > contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to > arrange for return of the documents. > > > > *From:* Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:12 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: main drain test > > > > What size riser and drain? > > > > *From:* Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 8:07 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [External][Sprinklerforum] Re: main drain test > > > > > > Demand is 361 gpm with 45 PSI @ BOR. Main drain test they are getting 37 > residual > > *Rocci Cetani III, **CET* > > *Senior Designer* > > *Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III* > > > > > > *Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.* > > 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > > Morgan Hill, CA 95037 > > P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 > > F-(408) 776-1590 > > > > To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: > > www.norcalfire.com > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__linkprotect.cudasvc.com_url-3Fa-3Dhttps-253a-252f-252fwww.norcalfire.com-26c-3DE-2C1-2Cypo-2DhmJif318ePaAIPvyejzM7sa42vkXcVSWq2hma8JCF-5FsYNcgOt9-2D58KHlgTq5dY4ZmdHUzWUmfQrxUZJ-5Fn6I1cvAMB-2DCvVk-2DH08hQ3FPMEdoavQ-2C-2C-26typo-3D1-26ancr-5Fadd-3D1&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=hLXh1DXRDwJ3oz4y7iNesSsetYhUUV0wawfPGfwmYxQ&m=4MgkwyfUkSqSH5EthDszEx6bxHotseuzJPrGd0B3SN54F7kWYQO0OjgjvIOUm5gX&s=4epqfbB5mlpZ6nuXQESD6qKK1XFs9Rqt7bblZ_Tb_lE&e=> > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may > contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information > is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you > are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to > deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the > contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to > arrange for return of the documents. > > > > *From:* Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 11, 2024 7:55 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: main drain test > > > > Assuming that the demand from the calc area is for OH 1or 2 (and no inside > hose), your demand is somewhere between 250 and 300 gpm If you modeled a > full 1,500 sq ft, no? And what is the residual pressure required? > > > > > > Steve Leyton > > > > Sent from my "Smart" Phone, so apologies for any typos or voice-to-text > corruptions. > > > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Rocci 3 Cetani <[email protected]> > > Date: 9/11/24 7:19 AM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] main drain test > > > > We have a jurisdiction that failed our final inspection because the > residual pressure during the main drain test doesn’t match our BOR residual > pressure from the hydraulic calcs for and OH extended coverage system. Am > I missing something? I don’t see how the residual pressure on a main drain > test has anything to do with the residual pressure from our calcs…..I was > always under the impression main drain tests were to verify there hasn’t > been a been a drastic change to the supply . This was an existing parking > garage where they added solar panels on the top level so we added a > sectional riser @ the top floor and added the new system. The fire > department just keeps saying to upsize the riser from the 1st floor to > the 4th floor which literally does nothing to my calcs. The building > owner has spent 10’s of thousands of dollars flushing the UG, inspecting > the UG for obstructions, paid for additional flow test and serviced the > back flow. We are at a complete loss on what else to do as the fire > department is adamant that’s the main drain test has to match the hydraulic > calcs…..anyone ever come across a situation like this with a jurisdiction? > Any suggestions? > > > > *Rocci Cetani III* > > > > *Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc.* > > 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > > Morgan Hill, CA 95037 > > P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.1010 > > F-(408) 776-1590 > > > > To help better serve you. Please visit our new and improved website at: > > www.norcalfire.com > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__linkprotect.cudasvc.com_url-3Fa-3Dhttps-253a-252f-252fwww.norcalfire.com-26c-3DE-2C1-2C7zy7IWDFl7WhyVO2rc-5FfD2Qggpjudq9RY4UToa1lNX4cxZxcKfz-2D4g6Y3tjr6DoY84Hj-5F0-5F2DEaJ2Fj8xllC3pU-5FgdVH7kji7IxBk0jTQTv8T1utM-2DI15Q-2C-2C-26typo-3D1-26ancr-5Fadd-3D1&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=hLXh1DXRDwJ3oz4y7iNesSsetYhUUV0wawfPGfwmYxQ&m=4MgkwyfUkSqSH5EthDszEx6bxHotseuzJPrGd0B3SN54F7kWYQO0OjgjvIOUm5gX&s=cw5j8NI1AgErRaOjhotqF82eM7CWpuwjoiSoRZP13Go&e=> > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may > contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information > is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you > are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to > deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the > contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to > arrange for return of the documents. > > > > ------------------------------ > > NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged > information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by > unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. 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