Thanks Bob, it does help by reinforcing where I'm going with this. These are taller and made of wood or particle board so we'll likely be using 20.3.4
Steve -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 2:48 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Bob Knight <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Shoe store complications Steve, What I've done on other projects such as Dick's Sporting Goods is Class I-IV commodities, unexpended, cartooned or exposed Group A plastics. This was with a maximum storage height of 8'. It required a .425/2000 & .5/4 most demanding sprinklers. This was based on their spec and NFPA 13 (16 ed.) 20.3.3, hope it helps a little bit. Thank you, Bob Knight, CET III Fire by Knight, LLC 208-318-3057 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 1:52 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Steve Leyton Subject: RE: Shoe store complications Whatever the fire official wants. SL -----Original Message----- From: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 12:50 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Spencer Tomlinson <[email protected]>; Steve Leyton <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Shoe store complications I would assume that there are tons of these that exist with OH2 sprinkler designs. Are there any examples of fires in any of those and information about whether the fire was controlled or overwhelmed the sprinklers? If the theory says it should be protected like Group A plastics, but the history shows that OH2 has proven sufficient, then what do you do? -Kyle M -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Spencer Tomlinson via Sprinklerforum Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:04 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Spencer Tomlinson <[email protected]>; Steve Leyton <[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Shoe store complications I have worked with a very large insurer of mall properties that treats the commodity class of any shoe store as storage of Group A unexpanded plastics, at whatever height, etc., that applies. Spencer Tomlinson, PE Owner, Fire Protection Engineer Ph: 316-202-6412 Fax: 316-202-2346 Cell: 620-955-7293 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:59 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Steve Leyton <[email protected]> Subject: Shoe store complications Has anyone got any experience with design or classification of a discount shoe store that displays shoes in 8' shelving units? These are particle board, storage to 10', with shoes on attachments to the front of the shelving units and densely packed boxes with stock in the shelving. Today's shoes can be made of textile or leather uppers, but more and more the inventory is characterized by synthetic materials, often nylon and polyester materials. Except for traditional dress shoes that may still have wood or leather soles, most shoes have various densities of foam layers for inner and middle soles, with rubber outer soles. Classifying the mix is challenging because of fast inventory turn-over, especially the discount chains. Not all are using the taller fixtures, but many do and we've got fire officials asking for protection of stored plastics. I can't really impeach that finding since the stores aren't able to state equivocally what shoes will be in stock at any time. We're assessing a format that's moving into a retail shell that was a Walgreen's store and will now be discount shoes with the aforementioned 10' of storage and a 25' deck height (an existing mezzanine is being demolished so roof is high for a standalone retail pad). Seems to me that Chapter 20 is the way to go and I'd value feedback or additional info it anyone's got something to offer. 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