On Fri, 2011-09-30 at 08:56 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> I wish I had any evidence that developers listen to the suggestions you
> want to send them. I have seen no such evidence. I would assume most of
> the people on this list are well aware of the difficulty of programming
> secure and "foolpr
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 20:15 -0700, jdow wrote:
> 1) Respect
>
> Writing software is not the slam dunk simple thing most people seem to
> think it to be based on their whining and carping. Please respect the
> effort. Dive in and try something simple yourself. A most interesting
> language is 2 yea
1) Respect
Writing software is not the slam dunk simple thing most people seem to
think it to be based on their whining and carping. Please respect the
effort. Dive in and try something simple yourself. A most interesting
language is 2 year old child. Try to program one to make his room neat
befor
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 18:08 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/29/2011 12:27 PM, Craig White wrote:
> > On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 10:46 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> >>> I vaguely recall the mantra... it's not a bug if it's not in bugzilla -
> >>> does that not apply any more?
> >>
> >> Huh?
> >
>
On 09/30/2011 07:55 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> These repetitions exist because each party perceives "the other
> side" not to listen, react, show insight, understand, etc.
We can understand each other and still genuinely have a difference of
opinion and approach. If you are around in the free s
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 19:03 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 29.09.2011 19:00, schrieb Joe Zeff:
> > On 09/29/2011 04:27 AM, Craig White wrote:
> >> I think you are now understanding why few developers monitor the various
> >> users lists.
> >
> > They don't want to know what users think of the
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 10:00 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 09/29/2011 04:27 AM, Craig White wrote:
> > I think you are now understanding why few developers monitor the various
> > users lists.
>
> They don't want to know what users think of their work?
Presuming that we are talking about the gen
On 09/30/2011 03:59 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 09/30/2011 01:04 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>>
>> i answered to "As a contributor, one real problem for me is the
>> amount of noise one has to filter through to get any meaningful
>> feedback" which came from a contributor which did NOT understand
On 09/30/2011 01:04 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> i answered to "As a contributor, one real problem for me is the
> amount of noise one has to filter through to get any meaningful
> feedback" which came from a contributor which did NOT understand
> why so many complaints are coming
As a contribut
Am 29.09.2011 21:29, schrieb Olav Vitters:
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 07:09:39PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> maybe developers should spent some thougts in which state they replace
>> working
>> solutions with often really good ideas that are not ready for endusers
>
> Suggest also not telling
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 07:09:39PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> maybe developers should spent some thougts in which state they replace working
> solutions with often really good ideas that are not ready for endusers
Suggest also not telling again and again what other people should do.
Also, I und
Am 29.09.2011 19:03, schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
> On 09/29/2011 10:30 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>> On 09/29/2011 04:27 AM, Craig White wrote:
>>> I think you are now understanding why few developers monitor the various
>>> users lists.
>>
>> They don't want to know what users think of their work?
>
> As
Am 29.09.2011 19:00, schrieb Joe Zeff:
> On 09/29/2011 04:27 AM, Craig White wrote:
>> I think you are now understanding why few developers monitor the various
>> users lists.
>
> They don't want to know what users think of their work?
many developers are not interested in their users and are u
On 29 September 2011 06:04, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> This discussion and others before have made it obvious that Gnome is a
> Cathedral governed by the absolute devine powers of its bishops and popes.
>
If you must keep repeating this then please spell divine correctly, it
is beginning to get ann
On 09/29/2011 12:27 PM, Craig White wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 10:46 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> On 09/29/2011 02:02 AM, Craig White wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 15:15 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
>>
I think you're missing the point. A major goal of any leading-edge
distro is to
On 09/29/2011 10:30 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 09/29/2011 04:27 AM, Craig White wrote:
>> I think you are now understanding why few developers monitor the various
>> users lists.
>
> They don't want to know what users think of their work?
As a contributor, one real problem for me is the amount of n
On 09/29/2011 04:27 AM, Craig White wrote:
> I think you are now understanding why few developers monitor the various
> users lists.
They don't want to know what users think of their work?
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On Thursday 29 September 2011 17:06:16 Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 09/29/2011 05:02 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > So if you want a GUI for Kerberos, SELinux, LVM or network management,
> > you depend on libgnome.
> >
> > And if those packages do not depend on Gnome in F15 or F16, I'll be very
> >
On 09/29/2011 05:02 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> So if you want a GUI for Kerberos, SELinux, LVM or network management, you
> depend on libgnome.
>
> And if those packages do not depend on Gnome in F15 or F16, I'll be very
> happily surprised. Having a gnome-free install of Fedora is one of my
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 03:52:26PM +0100, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > > > The challenge then is to upgrade the Gnome 2 code to use the newer
> > > > libraries.
> > >
> > > Which is essentially impossible without *a* *lot* of coding. IIUC, this
> > > is why Gnome3 has been rewritten from scratch, in
On Thursday 29 September 2011 14:55:32 Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:32:58PM +0100, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > > > Apparently it is already being done (sorry, forgot the new name of
> > > > the fork). However, AFAIK, it is far from straightforward to
> > > > "rebuild and rele
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:32:58PM +0100, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > > Apparently it is already being done (sorry, forgot the new name of the
> > > fork). However, AFAIK, it is far from straightforward to "rebuild and
> > > release" it. Gnome 2 and 3 use different versions of the same set of
> > >
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 10:46 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/29/2011 02:02 AM, Craig White wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 15:15 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
>
> >> I think you're missing the point. A major goal of any leading-edge
> >> distro is to get feedback from users on new features. In o
On 09/28/2011 11:34 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>
> * How to get rid of gdm and what to replace it with?
> Gdm had always been a major nuissance, which had never worked
> flawlessly, so I am inclined to use switching to xfce as an oportunty to
> get rid of it, as well.
>
I switched to KDM a
On Wednesday 28 September 2011 13:48:09 Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 08:26:27AM +0200, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Terry Barnaby
wrote:
> > > But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
> > > someone, who has a probl
On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 13:15 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> All I want to know is
>
> When will the 4th thread start, replete with the same characters, the
> same opinions and the same everything?
I think that comes with GNOME 4 - this is only GNOME 3
> I wish there were a way to predict
On 09/29/2011 02:02 AM, Craig White wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 15:15 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> I think you're missing the point. A major goal of any leading-edge
>> distro is to get feedback from users on new features. In other words,
>> getting negative feedback from users isn't a bug,
All I want to know is
When will the 4th thread start, replete with the same characters, the
same opinions and the same everything?
I wish there were a way to predict the Subject so I could pre-block it.
:-) :-) :-)
(The position of this comment should in no way infer any opinion or bias
of
On 09/29/2011 03:06 AM, Craig White wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 14:12 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>> On 09/28/2011 01:37 PM, Craig White wrote:
>>
>>> Those who are unwilling or unprepared to use leading edge software,
>>> still under development should probably be using something stable like
>
On 09/29/2011 03:29 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:26:44 +0200
> Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>
>> On 09/28/2011 03:42 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
>>
>>> yum groupinstall "XFCE"
>>> set your desktop at gdm
Remark: I am still using F14 as regular OS, however I have F15 testing
installations (no
On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:26:44 +0200
Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/28/2011 03:42 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> > yum groupinstall "XFCE"
> > set your desktop at gdm
>
> - EFAIL screensaver
--verbose? Hopefully you aren't trying to use gnome-screensaver.
xscreensaver should work fine.
> - EFAIL set d
On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 16:26 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/28/2011 03:42 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> > yum groupinstall "XFCE"
> > set your desktop at gdm
>
> - EFAIL screensaver
> - EFAIL set desktop background
> - EFAIL terminal sizing (Fix lingering in testing)
> - Sporadic -EFAIL restoring
On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 14:12 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/28/2011 01:37 PM, Craig White wrote:
>
> > Those who are unwilling or unprepared to use leading edge software,
> > still under development should probably be using something stable like
> > RHEL, CentOS, Scientific Linux, Ubuntu LTS,
On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 15:15 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/28/2011 12:37 PM, Craig White wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 11:39 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> >> No, but I think the controversy around GNOME 3 is of a different order
> >> from what we've seen before. This is not just the usual b
Am 27.09.2011 23:30, schrieb Terry Barnaby:
> I don't use Gnome myself, mainly KDE.
> But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
> someone,
> who has a problem with it just rebuild and release Gnome2 for F15 (with a
> different package name) ?
because this is a ltti
On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 17:05 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> Most people who complain about Gnome3 don't like its look'n'feel
> and/or are missing certain functionalities, but like the Gnome2
> look'n'feel and/or certain functionalities.
Or don't have the hardware to support its heavy baggage.
I've
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 05:05:35PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/28/2011 02:43 PM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
> >On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30:34PM +0100, Terry Barnaby wrote:
> >>I don't use Gnome myself, mainly KDE.
> >>But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
>
On 09/28/2011 02:43 PM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30:34PM +0100, Terry Barnaby wrote:
>> I don't use Gnome myself, mainly KDE.
>> But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
>> someone,
>> who has a problem with it just rebuild and release Gnom
On 09/28/2011 03:42 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
> yum groupinstall "XFCE"
> set your desktop at gdm
- EFAIL screensaver
- EFAIL set desktop background
- EFAIL terminal sizing (Fix lingering in testing)
- Sporadic -EFAIL restoring desktop.
> End of problem
Start of new problems ;)
Ralf
--
users maili
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 09:02:30AM -0400, Mike Wohlgemuth wrote:
> amazingly freeing. Likewise, you can turn on focus follows mouse, but
> if you do you will likely become frustrated with the experience. I have
Focus-follows-mouse is just very bugyy in F15. It behaves better in 3.2
(F16), and
On 09/28/2011 12:37 PM, Craig White wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 11:39 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> On 09/28/2011 11:12 AM, Craig White wrote:
>>> Just look at the feedback on the new Macintosh OS X Lion or Windows 8
>>> preview... there is a lot of griping about the changes to the UI. It's
>>>
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:08:55PM +0900, Misha Shnurapet wrote:
> 28.09.2011, 21:43, "Darryl L. Pierce" :
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30:34PM +0100, Terry Barnaby wrote:
> >
> >> I don't use Gnome myself, mainly KDE.
> >> But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
28.09.2011, 21:43, "Darryl L. Pierce" :
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30:34PM +0100, Terry Barnaby wrote:
>
>> I don't use Gnome myself, mainly KDE.
>> But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
>> someone,
>> who has a problem with it just rebuild and release Gnome2
> Open source is GREAT, but developers must remember
> that the cost (time and $) to move from one version to another
> is very low
Most of the Gnome developers probably are not Fedora users anyway,
and why should they care which distro people use ? Similarly from a
commercial perspective 'wha
On 09/28/2011 05:55 AM, Misha Shnurapet wrote:
> It is known that Red Hat makes money from RHEL. RHEL releases are
> mostly snapshot Fedora. And for the community to be willing to
> contribute to Fedora, it must receive something back. Specifically,
> a free desktop operating system that they lik
On 09/28/2011 08:32 AM, Wade Hampton wrote:
> Additional data points that might add to the flames:
>
> 1) I have a co-worker new to Linux. He tried F15 and hated it,
> then went back to F14. I believe WinXP/Vista/7 users
> trying Linux for the first time ARE confused by F15/Gnome3.
>
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 08:26:27AM +0200, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Terry Barnaby wrote:
> > But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
> > someone,
> > who has a problem with it just rebuild and release Gnome2 for F15 (with a
> > diffe
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30:34PM +0100, Terry Barnaby wrote:
> I don't use Gnome myself, mainly KDE.
> But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
> someone,
> who has a problem with it just rebuild and release Gnome2 for F15 (with a
> different package name) ?
+1
T
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:13:39PM +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 11:47 -0400, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
> > Given how small the market is for tablets (compared to the server
> > business) I would find such a statement highly questionable.
>
> If Red Hat is still primarily concerned with
[snip long rants]
The "customers" of Fedora are the users. If you
irritate or frustrate your users, especially if the
cost is $0 to move to something else, you WILL lose
market share and hence mind share.
Additional data points that might add to the flames:
1) I have a co-worker new to Linux.
On 09/28/2011 01:37 PM, Craig White wrote:
> Those who are unwilling or unprepared to use leading edge software,
> still under development should probably be using something stable like
> RHEL, CentOS, Scientific Linux, Ubuntu LTS, Debian or something other
> than Fedora.
Pardon, I had not intende
28.09.2011, 20:46, "Craig White" :
> Those who are unwilling or unprepared to use leading edge software,
> still under development should probably be using something stable like
> RHEL, CentOS, Scientific Linux, Ubuntu LTS, Debian or something other
> than Fedora.
Just for your information:
1. all
On 09/28/2011 02:26 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
>> But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
>> someone,
>> who has a problem with it just rebuild and release Gnome2 for F15 (with a
>> different package name) ?
>
> Apparently it is already being done (sorry, forgot the
On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 11:39 +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/28/2011 11:12 AM, Craig White wrote:
> > Just look at the feedback on the new Macintosh OS X Lion or Windows 8
> > preview... there is a lot of griping about the changes to the UI. It's
> > certain that regardless of the OS, changes to
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:50:36AM +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/28/2011 11:47 AM, Alexander Volovics wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:39:51AM +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> >
> >> When Linus Torvalds says "I want my sane interfaces back. I have yet
> >> to meet anybody who likes the unhol
It is known that Red Hat makes money from RHEL. RHEL releases are mostly
snapshot Fedora. And for the community to be willing to contribute to Fedora,
it must receive something back. Specifically, a free desktop operating system
that they like (or, which is better, adore). When people are not ha
On 09/28/2011 11:47 AM, Alexander Volovics wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:39:51AM +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
>
>> When Linus Torvalds says "I want my sane interfaces back. I have yet
>> to meet anybody who likes the unholy mess that is gnome-3" the problem
>> has to be taken seriously. (It's
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:39:51AM +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> When Linus Torvalds says "I want my sane interfaces back. I have yet
> to meet anybody who likes the unholy mess that is gnome-3" the problem
> has to be taken seriously. (It's not just Linus, but he's a leading
> developer who repre
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:39:51AM +0100, Andrew Haley wrote:
> No, but I think the controversy around GNOME 3 is of a different order
> from what we've seen before. This is not just the usual bunch of
> complaints.
I've seen the same during KDE 4.0 and GNOME 2.0.
--
Regards,
Olav
--
users mail
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 03:12:15AM -0700, Craig White wrote:
> No problem with your English whatsoever.
>
> The only problem that I have is with the logic that the fate of GNOME
> represents the fate of Open Source or Linux - it doesn't.
>
> Just look at the feedback on the new Macintosh OS X Li
On 09/28/2011 11:12 AM, Craig White wrote:
> Just look at the feedback on the new Macintosh OS X Lion or Windows 8
> preview... there is a lot of griping about the changes to the UI. It's
> certain that regardless of the OS, changes to the UI will always raise a
> bunch of complaints and the more d
On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 04:58 +0200, Kernel Guardian wrote:
> After nearly 25 years of life with Unices, almost 20 years with Linux,
> nowadays I'm pretty confused about future of Linux.
> Allow me to elaborate a bit.
> I'm convinced that the Kernel will survive and be better in the long
> term futur
On 09/28/2011 03:58 AM, Kernel Guardian wrote:
> At the end, using of Free Software is liberty/freedom of choice. There
> are many opportunities: KDE, XFCE, LXDE They have been created as
> response from people who thought differently. This is a waste of
> energy, time, resources, even money.
On 28/09/11 13:23, Phil Savoie wrote:
> On 09/27/2011 08:58 PM, Kernel Guardian wrote:
>> After nearly 25 years of life with Unices, almost 20 years with Linux,
>> nowadays I'm pretty confused about future of Linux.
>> Allow me to elaborate a bit.
>> I'm convinced that the Kernel will survive and b
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Terry Barnaby wrote:
> But its seems like a lot of people would like Gnome2 back. Why doesn't
> someone,
> who has a problem with it just rebuild and release Gnome2 for F15 (with a
> different package name) ?
Apparently it is already being done (sorry, forgot th
On 09/27/2011 08:58 PM, Kernel Guardian wrote:
> After nearly 25 years of life with Unices, almost 20 years with Linux,
> nowadays I'm pretty confused about future of Linux.
> Allow me to elaborate a bit.
> I'm convinced that the Kernel will survive and be better in the long
> term future. RedHat a
After nearly 25 years of life with Unices, almost 20 years with Linux,
nowadays I'm pretty confused about future of Linux.
Allow me to elaborate a bit.
I'm convinced that the Kernel will survive and be better in the long
term future. RedHat and IBM as biggest contributors within it and
Linus as mai
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 15:37 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> Because the Gnome devs are preferring not to listen to their former
> users' complaints and prefer to furtherly isolate themselves in their
> "devine ivory cathedral's tower"?
Sounds like they've been facebooking... :-\ (I got tired
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 11:47 -0400, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
> Given how small the market is for tablets (compared to the server
> business) I would find such a statement highly questionable.
If Red Hat is still primarily concerned with the server market, then
Gnome3 makes even less sense.
--
[tim
On 09/27/2011 02:00 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 27 September 2011 10:59, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> On 09/26/2011 11:59 PM, Roger wrote:
>
>>> Some say that the new Fedora GUI is unhelpful and possibly difficult to
>>> use, preferring a simpler desktop.
>>
>> Ahh, this is all about GNOME 3. It's very
> On 09/27/2011 08:00 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
>> On 27 September 2011 14:37, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>>
Because the Gnome devs are preferring not to listen to their former
users' complaints and prefer to furtherly isolate themselves in their
"devine ivory cathedral's tower"?
>>
On 09/27/2011 08:00 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 27 September 2011 14:37, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>
>> > Because the Gnome devs are preferring not to listen to their former
>> > users' complaints and prefer to furtherly isolate themselves in their
>> > "devine ivory cathedral's tower"?
>> >
> Can't
On 09/27/2011 06:37 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> Like others said before, in comparison to Gnome2, xfce looks like lego
> and is a step backward, but it at least is not as unusable as Gnome3.
>
> To me, using xfce so far is the bitter pill to swallow and the only
> viable alternative to avoid having
On 09/27/2011 05:43 PM, Nalin Dahyabhai wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 05:34:25PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>> Yes, RHAT is Red Hat's stock exchange short cut.
>
> Not for a few years now. It's been RHT since late in 2006.
OK, I stay corrected.
What you say matches what http://en.wikipedia.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 05:34:25PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/27/2011 05:00 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
> > On 27 September 2011 14:37, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> >
> >> Because the Gnome devs are preferring not to listen to their former
> >> users' complaints and prefer to furtherly isolate them
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 05:34:25PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> Yes, RHAT is Red Hat's stock exchange short cut.
Not for a few years now. It's been RHT since late in 2006.
Cheers,
Nalin
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On 09/27/2011 05:00 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 27 September 2011 14:37, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>
>> Because the Gnome devs are preferring not to listen to their former
>> users' complaints and prefer to furtherly isolate themselves in their
>> "devine ivory cathedral's tower"?
>>
>
> Can't really s
On 27 September 2011 14:37, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> Because the Gnome devs are preferring not to listen to their former
> users' complaints and prefer to furtherly isolate themselves in their
> "devine ivory cathedral's tower"?
>
Can't really say this until we've been through a few iterations of
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 06:19 -0700, Don Quixote de la Mancha wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:09 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> > This distro has more than one DE.
>
> Perhaps it would be productive if you posted explicit, detailed
> instructions for changing the desktop environment in Fedora, or if
On 09/27/2011 03:09 PM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/27/2011 12:01 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>> On 09/27/2011 11:59 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>>> On 09/26/2011 11:59 PM, Roger wrote:
On 26/09/11 19:38, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 02:15 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
>> Alan Cox is exact
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:09 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> This distro has more than one DE.
Perhaps it would be productive if you posted explicit, detailed
instructions for changing the desktop environment in Fedora, or if
there are already instructions online, researched which page is best
then pos
On 09/27/2011 12:01 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/27/2011 11:59 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> On 09/26/2011 11:59 PM, Roger wrote:
>>> On 26/09/11 19:38, Andrew Haley wrote:
On 09/22/2011 02:15 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
On 27 September 2011 10:59, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/26/2011 11:59 PM, Roger wrote:
>> Some say that the new Fedora GUI is unhelpful and possibly difficult to
>> use, preferring a simpler desktop.
>
> Ahh, this is all about GNOME 3. It's very unfair to describe the
> actions/attitude of GNOME
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 13:01 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/27/2011 11:59 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> >
> > GNOME 3 is, to say the least, controversial. Ubuntu Unity hasn't had a
> > uniformly great reception either.
> Agreed. As I see it, both Ubuntu and Fedora's managements seem to be
> addic
On 09/27/2011 11:59 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/26/2011 11:59 PM, Roger wrote:
>> On 26/09/11 19:38, Andrew Haley wrote:
>>> On 09/22/2011 02:15 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
free and one can make a strong case that there
snip
>
> Ahh, this is all about GNOME 3. It's very unfair to describe the
> actions/attitude of GNOME developers at that of all Fedora developers.
>
snip
>
> Not to mention KDE and XFCE.
>
> GNOME 3 is, to say the least, controversial. Ubuntu Unity hasn't had a
> uniformly great reception ei
On 09/26/2011 11:59 PM, Roger wrote:
> On 26/09/11 19:38, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> On 09/22/2011 02:15 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
>>> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
>>> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
>>> have no responsibility
On 26/09/11 19:38, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 02:15 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
>> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
>> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
>> have no responsibility to listen to user's complaints.
>>
>> Howev
On 26/09/11 19:38, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 02:15 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
>> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
>> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
>> have no responsibility to listen to user's complaints.
>>
>> Howev
On 09/22/2011 02:15 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
> have no responsibility to listen to user's complaints.
>
> However, the Fedora users provide a service to the
On 09/25/2011 04:17 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 09/24/2011 11:43 AM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:
>> Things are as they should be because things are as they are.
>
> This is going way, way off topic, but that could be used as a
> justification for never changing anything.
Or for changing everything. "Everything" enc
On 09/24/2011 11:43 AM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:
> Things are as they should be because things are as they are.
This is going way, way off topic, but that could be used as a
justification for never changing anything.
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On 09/24/2011 07:36 AM, charles zeitler wrote:
> Do what thou wilt
> shall be the whole of the Law.
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
>> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
>> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora devel
Do what thou wilt
shall be the whole of the Law.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
> have no responsibility to listen to user's compl
On 09/22/2011 06:45 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
> have no responsibility to listen to user's complaints.
>
> However, the Fedora users provide a service to the
On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 08:15 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
> free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
> have no responsibility to listen to user's complaints.
>
> However, the Fedora users provide a se
Alan Cox is exactly right that the users of Fedora products get them
free and one can make a strong case that therefore Fedora developers
have no responsibility to listen to user's complaints.
However, the Fedora users provide a service to the ReHat company of
identifying bugs that otherwise would
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