On 25/05/09 21:01, Andrew Sayers wrote:
> Jan Claeys wrote:
>
>> A lot of people run unstable during alpha & beta, but many do it in a VM
>> or on an old spare system. That doesn't help find regressions that are
>> hardware-related, of course, and in general those systems might not see
>> the s
On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 13:24 +0200, Remco wrote:
...
> Downgrade
> conversion is probably not feasible for any but the most popular
> packages.
I completely agree with your message. Of course, expecting every package
to provide a downgrade converter is unrealistic. On the other hand, how
often do p
Jan Claeys wrote:
> A lot of people run unstable during alpha & beta, but many do it in a VM
> or on an old spare system. That doesn't help find regressions that are
> hardware-related, of course, and in general those systems might not see
> the same sort of use that people's "main" computers see.
>> Alternatively, replace Evolution with MySQL or such.
>>
>> This is what I understand to be the hard problem in *supporting* package
>> downgrades.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Ah, but this is no longer 'roll back' relevant. No fancy zapped file
> system will help there.
>
>
/me thinking of fr
Christopher James Halse Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 11:12 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
>
>>> That is not the case with OpenSolaris based ZFS root capable
>>> installations. While the whole disk maybe taken up by a zfs pool, the
>>> installation will create three at least zfs filesy
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Christopher James Halse Rogers
wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 11:12 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
>> That is not the case with OpenSolaris based ZFS root capable
>> installations. While the whole disk maybe taken up by a zfs pool, the
>> installation will create a
On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 07:58 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> Il giorno lun, 25/05/2009 alle 02.09 +0200, Markus Hitter ha scritto:
> >
> > Craft a system where people can switch back and forth between
> > different package versions. "This update broke foo?" -> Report a bug
> > and switch foo b
On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 11:12 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> > That is not the case with OpenSolaris based ZFS root capable
> > installations. While the whole disk maybe taken up by a zfs pool, the
> > installation will create three at least zfs filesystems. ROOT/,
> > ROOT/opt, export, and expo
Am 25.05.2009 um 03:46 schrieb Christopher James Halse Rogers:
> Supporting package downgrades means
> supporting package downgrades in general, and this would require that
> package maintainers write back-conversion utilities where necessary.
... or to make a copy of the original settings just
Il giorno lun, 25/05/2009 alle 02.09 +0200, Markus Hitter ha scritto:
>
> Craft a system where people can switch back and forth between
> different package versions. "This update broke foo?" -> Report a bug
> and switch foo back to the previous version -> Damage gone, user
> happy.
Using alph
> That is not the case with OpenSolaris based ZFS root capable
> installations. While the whole disk maybe taken up by a zfs pool, the
> installation will create three at least zfs filesystems. ROOT/,
> ROOT/opt, export, and export/home all exist on my OpenSolaris
> installation. So all data i
Christopher James Halse Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 03:03 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>
>> 2009/5/25 Christopher James Halse Rogers :
>>
>>> Having some sort of "roll back to previous package version" button might
>>> be a nice idea, though it would need to be designed in such
On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 03:03 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> 2009/5/25 Christopher James Halse Rogers :
> > Having some sort of "roll back to previous package version" button might
> > be a nice idea, though it would need to be designed in such a way that
> > made it clear there was no guarantee th
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> 2009/5/25 Christopher James Halse Rogers :
> > Having some sort of "roll back to previous package version" button might
> > be a nice idea, though it would need to be designed in such a way that
> > made it clear there was no guarantee t
2009/5/25 Christopher James Halse Rogers :
> Having some sort of "roll back to previous package version" button might
> be a nice idea, though it would need to be designed in such a way that
> made it clear there was no guarantee that it'd work. I'm not sure
> whether we'd be doing users a favour
On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 02:22 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> 2009/5/25 Markus Hitter :
> >
> > Am 25.05.2009 um 00:01 schrieb Jan Claeys:
> >
> >> And to be honest, I don't see how we can make more people use alpha
> >> versions on their "I need this for work" system...
> >
> > Craft a system where
2009/5/25 Markus Hitter :
>
> Am 25.05.2009 um 00:01 schrieb Jan Claeys:
>
>> And to be honest, I don't see how we can make more people use alpha
>> versions on their "I need this for work" system...
>
> Craft a system where people can switch back and forth between
> different package versions. "Th
Am 25.05.2009 um 00:01 schrieb Jan Claeys:
> And to be honest, I don't see how we can make more people use alpha
> versions on their "I need this for work" system...
Craft a system where people can switch back and forth between
different package versions. "This update broke foo?" -> Report a b
Op donderdag 14-05-2009 om 09:46 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Mackenzie
Morgan:
> I wonder what percent of Ubuntu users run unstable during alpha. I
> recall hearing that something like 70% of Debian users run Sid. I'm
> sure it's not that high, but is there any way we can find out what it
> is?
On 15/05/09 23:27, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> Il giorno ven, 15/05/2009 alle 16.34 +0200, Markus Hitter ha scritto:
>
>> As popularity increases, more vendors will attempt to provide
>> drivers
>> at launch dates of new hardware. For now it's a reasonable strategy
>> to buy hardware which is
Il giorno ven, 15/05/2009 alle 12.56 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan ha scritto:
>
> It became incompatible with the router? I didn't think that was
> possiblethough it is true that iwl3945 had some growing pains. I
> found
> that a Broadcom-based laptop I had had about double the range the
> iwl3
On Friday 15 May 2009 11:27:27 am Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> I have an external network card,
> bought upon frustration after iwl3945 _replaced_ ipw3945, breaking it
> with my home router, and nobody in ubuntu cared to consider forward port
> of the drivers.
It became incompatible with the router?
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Andrew wrote:
> If its developers really think that users should stick with 1.4 they
> aren't doing a good job promoting that.
>
> [1] http://amarok.kde.org/
> [2] http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Download:Kubuntu
> [3] http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Download:Source
>
> - A
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> Il giorno gio, 14/05/2009 alle 19.55 +0800, John McCabe-Dansted ha
> scritto:
>> Quite. I haven't noticed any problems with LaTeX. This may be because
>> I use LyX+xdvi. LyX+Okular seems to be fine too, although Okular is
>> rather sluggis
Il giorno ven, 15/05/2009 alle 16.34 +0200, Markus Hitter ha scritto:
>
> As popularity increases, more vendors will attempt to provide
> drivers
> at launch dates of new hardware. For now it's a reasonable strategy
> to buy hardware which is at least half a year old or which is binary
> com
Am 15.05.2009 um 11:17 schrieb Onno Benschop:
> There are days when I wonder if Linux will ever get ahead of the
> curve.
> As popularity increases, expectations mount, bug reports increase,
> noise
> level goes up, work-load goes up, dissatisfaction goes up, morale
> drops,
> momentum stal
On 14/05/09 19:57, Markus Hitter wrote:
> Am 14.05.2009 um 13:16 schrieb Vincenzo Ciancia:
>
>> If every case can be argued to be uncommon, why worrying at all with
>> fixing bugs? No bug affects all users.
>>
>
> Good point. Having no common case means bugs have to be taken
> seriously i
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 7:55 AM, John McCabe-Dansted wrote:
> AFAICT Amarok didn't just have a couple of annoying bugs, it was never
> really ready for widespread use. According to Jeff Mitchel "We've
> maintained that until 2.1, most users should stick with 1.4.
> Unfortunately, just as Intrepid
Il giorno gio, 14/05/2009 alle 09.54 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan ha scritto:
>
> > I became involved with the developement and then gave up, when I
> > recognised that ubuntu needed manpower.
>
> "More volunteers are needed, so I'll stop volunteering"...what?
>
Just a badly constructed sentence: I
On Thursday 14 May 2009 9:07:25 am Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> I became involved with the developement and then gave up, when I
> recognised that ubuntu needed manpower.
"More volunteers are needed, so I'll stop volunteering"...what?
> I may decide to get back to contributing patches at least in t
Regressions occur in Ubuntu releases. As mentioned elsewhere, this is
to be expected, and may be for the best. But if you've spent 6 months
getting Intrepid just how you like it, starting over again with Jaunty
can be a pain.
So how about we offer the user the opportunity to `cp -l /bin /etc
On Thursday 14 May 2009 8:26:13 am Emmet Hikory wrote:
> Of course, there's lots of people who don't do this: this will
> always be true. And sometimes it's tempting to be amoung that number,
> because it's a lot less effort,
I wonder what percent of Ubuntu users run unstable during alpha.
Il giorno gio, 14/05/2009 alle 19.55 +0800, John McCabe-Dansted ha
scritto:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Daniel Chen wrote:
> >
> > Grave for whom? For you? For what common use cases? These are things
> > that are factors to consider when affecting an entire release.
>
> Quite. I haven't no
Il giorno gio, 14/05/2009 alle 21.26 +0900, Emmet Hikory ha scritto:
> Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> (and sometimes different
> priorities for the same package: seeking new features until personal use
> cases are addressed, and then wanting the package to be stable from that
> point forward).
>
Very
Il giorno gio, 14/05/2009 alle 02.47 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs ha scritto:
>
> User-defined commands - Tick;
> RefTex - bibliography completion - Tick
>
> preview-latex - Why do I need it when I have auto-refresh of Xdvi
> But ok =D
Please let us stop this. I know emacs. 10 years ago I was a u
Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
<...>
> I see that when bad things about ubuntu are pointed out, typically you
> only get defensive answers by users. They all seem not to understand
> that, at least in my case, I usually *do* defend ubuntu against too easy
> critics, just like you. But if the problem exist
Am 14.05.2009 um 13:16 schrieb Vincenzo Ciancia:
> If every case can be argued to be uncommon, why worrying at all with
> fixing bugs? No bug affects all users.
Good point. Having no common case means bugs have to be taken
seriously independent of how many users are affected. If each bug
aff
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Daniel Chen wrote:
>
> Grave for whom? For you? For what common use cases? These are things
> that are factors to consider when affecting an entire release.
Quite. I haven't noticed any problems with LaTeX. This may be because
I use LyX+xdvi. LyX+Okular seems to b
Il giorno mer, 13/05/2009 alle 22.20 -0400, Daniel Chen ha scritto:
>
> > So: There is no common case.
>
> Which was my point precisely.
>
Oh come on; please be reasonable. I955 and similar chipsets have not
one, but so many different bugs on jaunty that the common case is under
your eyes.
Go
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Markus Hitter wrote:
> This gives an impression like "The Ubuntu Team" (whoever this is) is totally
> overwhelmed with the sheer number of reports - wich isn't neccessarily a bad
> thing, but isn't encouraging more reports either.
Yes, the firehose of bug reports
2009/5/14 Vincenzo Ciancia :
> Il giorno gio, 14/05/2009 alle 00.11 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs ha scritto:
>> Lack of Decent Latex Support?
>>
>> I've switched to ubuntu because of it. I was sick of realising that
>> I'm missing this or that latex package. in ubuntu I did default
>> averag
On Wednesday 13 May 2009 7:11:16 pm Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> Lack of Decent Latex Support?
>
> About editors have you tried AucTeX with Speedbar and code
> folding? It rocks better than anything else.
I use vim with the vim-latexsuite package installed, and it does code-folding.
Am 13.05.2009 um 20:39 schrieb Daniel Chen:
> There has been no lack of calls for testing. Some of these calls have
> resulted in timely and effective bug reports. Others, not so much. I
> doubt testers' responses have been blithely ignored.
I hope they aren't, of course. Yet, of the about 8 bug
Il giorno mer, 13/05/2009 alle 17.47 -0400, Daniel T Chen ha scritto:
>
> Ubuntu is a community-driven distribution. Help make it as good as it
> can
> be. There is no "I cannot", only "I will not".
>
I tried for a while (can brag about a couple of xournal and lyx uploads)
but for me the consum
Il giorno gio, 14/05/2009 alle 00.11 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs ha scritto:
> Lack of Decent Latex Support?
>
> I've switched to ubuntu because of it. I was sick of realising that
> I'm missing this or that latex package. in ubuntu I did default
> average (a little bit of extra math fonts
Lack of Decent Latex Support?
I've switched to ubuntu because of it. I was sick of realising that
I'm missing this or that latex package. in ubuntu I did default
average (a little bit of extra math fonts) and everytime I'm offline I
manage to compile anything my collegues give me.
Abo
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On Wed, 13 May 2009, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> I can't become an ubuntu developer
> because I lack time for that. You have requirements about developers and
> that's very good. I can't meet those requirements therefore I limit
> myself to a liter
On Wednesday 13 May 2009 3:22:56 pm Daniel Chen wrote:
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote:
> I wrote:
> >> Again, for which users on what hardware? Do those users constitute the
> >> majority of people using Ubuntu?
>
> You replied:
> > Actually, Daniel, it is rather poor.
Il giorno mer, 13/05/2009 alle 15.22 -0400, Daniel Chen ha scritto:
>
>
> You replied:
> > Actually, Daniel, it is rather poor. You saw what happened on my
> computer.
> > If I didn't turn on greedy, it would lock constantly. And seeing as
> it worked
> > without greedy not a month before relea
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote:
> Amarok works, but it *is* a feature regression over previous versions. It
> used to play CDs, for example. It does not now. Upstream's working on it, but
> they didn't consider it a priority for releasing Amarok2, thinking most people
>
On Wednesday 13 May 2009 2:39:16 pm Daniel Chen wrote:
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Vincenzo Ciancia
wrote:
> > What is it doing there in a stable release? This program has not been
> > tested. It is not stable. People does not like it yet.
>
> Are you seriously saying that Amarok has not
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> I hope this will not sound like a complaint.
It does.
> The problem
> is there, and it's grave.
Grave for whom? For you? For what common use cases? These are things
that are factors to consider when affecting an entire release.
> In my
Hi all,
I hope this will not sound like a complaint. However, I really do not
see solutions to the following problems except for reverting versions of
programs in jaunty. Which is not going to be done, no need to say this.
So this may just sound like a complaint. Instead, I write this e-mail
becau
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