Hi all, I hope this will not sound like a complaint. However, I really do not see solutions to the following problems except for reverting versions of programs in jaunty. Which is not going to be done, no need to say this. So this may just sound like a complaint. Instead, I write this e-mail because perhaps some of you will have alternative solutions. The problem is there, and it's grave. I fiddled all the afternoon to find a decent tex editor and then I surrended and installed kile from intrepid.
In my opinion, the switch to recent versions of some programs has been done without the needed testing, (or, like in the case of the intel driver, without taking seriously the response from testers) and results in a completely broken or very badly usable system for many. In the latest release of ubuntu, I mean. I found lots of webpage explaining how to get previous versions of programs from the intrepid repositories or from ppas. Apart from the fact that, once upon a time, I recall having to hack to try the *latest* versions of programs, not the *older* ones :) people needs to fiddle with the default distribution in a fully unsupported way, to make it usable. THIS IS BAD FOR UBUNTU! THIS IS BAD FOR UBUNTU! THIS IS BAD FOR UBUNTU! THIS IS BAD FOR UBUNTU! THIS IS BAD FOR UBUNTU! THIS IS BAD Sorry for the caps. I really wanted to attract your attention there. Problem 1: lack of decent latex support in jaunty =================================================== there is no decent latex environment, except for the classic emacs+xdvi mode. Windows has miktex. We should be competitive with windows at least on classic fronts such as latex. Instead, and I hereby state it loudly, if it was just for latex, and I did not know how to remedy, I would be using windows and perhaps laughing at GNU/linux/whatever users, too. Part 1: lack of a decent latex editor The problem is as follows: for big latex documents, a TOC navigation mode, citation/user-defined-macros completion, and forward/backward search capabilities are a must. They just make you productive. They are present in mikex and they used to work well in kile in intrepid. We should not loose points right now as we are doing. In ubuntu, there is no such thing as an usable environment with these features. Texmaker is incredibly slow while navigating/editing (googling seems to show it is a known issue), and kile is extremely, yes I said extremely, buggy and crashy. It is extremely slow too, especially when using the TOC. The new GUI is a real PITA with its changing actions in response to the same shortcuts (yes it is true). I messed up my ph.d. thesis with it today, then in complete frustration reinstalled kile 2.0.1 from intrepid, which works like a charm. Part 2: lack of a decent dvi viewer Okular will become great, but for now it is slow, really slow especially in loading documents. If you recompile a document often, it will be a pain. And it does not support forward searches. Again, the only solution is to install kdvi from intrepid. Which works like a charm. Problem 2: lack of a decent "amarok" ==================================== I personally prefer to use a gnome-based player (currently banshee), even if I have to say that there is no such a good music player as amarok around. The new amarok is said by many to be completely unusable. I wanted to try it before posting. I started this post disgusted by some persons I know asking me how to revert to previous amarok. I installed jaunty to them. I feel responsible for that. I started amarok. More than 30 seconds to launch. This excludes it from my tastes. Then it is playing music for me right now. However see this post, and read the comments: http://nomad.ca/blog/2009/apr/3/amarok-14-jaunty-ubuntu-904/ Actually my girlfriend just told me that she has downgraded amarok on her eeepc because it just didn't emit any noise (whereas, it should play songs :)). What is it doing there in a stable release? This program has not been tested. It is not stable. People does not like it yet. I know it will be fixed, but why shipping a broken program in a stable distribution? Please don't hate or kill or whatever me for this sentence. I loved amarok in the past and as I see things, people should use good software, in order to support it. The new amarok is broken. The old one is good. When the new one is ready people will love it. What's wrong in waiting 6 months? Why not making an external repository for those who want to test the new kde applications? Please try kile for yourself. The new amarok. Okular for dvi previewing. Then you'll really say "we have done something wrong, and it's too late to remedy". And perhaps in the future this race to the latest version of untested software will be closed. ScottK: I hope you'll not killfile me right now. You removed kdvi from the archives in a hurry some day before the release. I have been testing jaunty since alphas and had no time to tell you "hey, okular lacks forward search". Now this can't be my fault. Nor yours: you wanted to get rid of unsupported applications and that's good. But it was way too quick as a move. Next time a bit more testing will help. I am just pointing out the fact that people is starting to "hack and fiddle with ubuntu". This is not what YOU want. So please consider these happenings in the future. If an application is really not ready, nobody is constrained to ship it. It seems to me that while ubuntu was a good escape to the "we will not change that for 3 years" debian policy, it is turning in the exact opposite: let's change everything in the name of progress. As another example, my ubuntu deadlocks three times a day and I had to fiddle with xorg.conf to get a decent speed. Because of problems with intel drivers that were signalled months ago. I was told _here_ that it was way too early to worry, and that if problems would not have been solved forward porting would have been considered. Obviously, then, problems become ordinary bugs and forward porting makes developers smile and perhaps path on someone's back. Come on. The new intel driver was and is broken. Upgrading has been a grave mistake and users are seeing an ubuntu that deadlocks. LIKE WINDOWS 10 YEARS AGO! It should NOT have been upgraded, or at least a blacklist of systems and chipsets that needed the old driver should have been made. Bryce Harrington: I know that you are affected by the problem in first person, and you are likely one of the persons involved in the decision procedure. However: a month before jaunty release, did you expect that it would have been shipped broken? It seems to me that too much trust was put in the fact that it'd have been fixed. Again, this is not a complaint. As we (you, much more often) fix bugs, we can also fix procedures. The ubuntu procedure for testing, in jaunty, seems not to have worked in some points. Next release can be better also from this point of view. Perhaps by just listening a bit more to regressions (it seems my favourite topic?). Vincenzo -- It is also important to note that hedgehogs do not actually hurt each other when they get close to one another. Actually, when living in groups, hedgehogs often sleep close to each other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog%27s_dilemma -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
