On 18 September 2013 18:44, Jonathan Bennett wrote:
> We already tag the whole site as landuse=allotments and we just need to
> mark individual plots with allotment[s]=plot(*). This makes it clear
> it's an allotment plot we're talking about, not anything else.
>
> Each plot will probably have a "
Just some more aspects
Matthijs Melissen wrote
> There is no consensus on what to do if votings and actual use disagree.
There is also no consensus on what constitutes a valid vote. Some times
there are questionable "votes", discussing things for a short time in remote
places, avoiding discussa
2013/9/18 Jonathan Bennett
> ...or alternatively: it's clear a tag for an individual plot is needed,
> but after that point it got bikeshedded to death.
>
+1
>
> I will try stating what is needed as clearly as I can:
>
> A plot is the individual parcel of land within and allotment site that
"Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)" wrote:
> On 18 September 2013 18:44, Jonathan Bennett
> wrote:
> > We already tag the whole site as landuse=allotments and we just need
> to
> > mark individual plots with allotment[s]=plot(*). This makes it clear
> > it's an allotment plot we're talking about, not
2013/9/18 Janko Mihelić
> In it we can connect meanings of various tags to wikipedia.orgdefinitions,
> and connect tags to other tags.
>
I think it is a bad idea to connect the meaning of osm tags to definitions
in wikipedia, because the content of wikipedia articles is not something we
contro
All,
I've contributed to osm in the past, though I tend to do edits for a
little bit then disappear for a long while. I recently had an idea for
an app, which required me to have street parking data for the city of
Montréal and since it's not in osm yet I thought I would start adding
it. [Eno
Please note I have renamed the proposed tag as allotment=plot as a sub-tag
of landuse=allotments.
The page has been amended accordingly
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:allotments%3Dplot
Voting will start on the 20th September (This Friday) and finish on
Wednesday 27th Sep
Sorry for the extra traffic. I found the answer to my own question by
following the link to key:opening_hours.
Cheers,
Charles
On 09/18/2013 04:25 PM, Charles Basenga Kiyanda wrote:
All,
I've contributed to osm in the past, though I tend to do edits for a
little bit then disappear for a lon
2013/9/18 Serge Wroclawski
> 1. We do not map land lots in OSM, for reasons that have been
> discussed many times.
>
I am not aware about a general decision not to do it, the main problem
around here is that this kind of data is not publicly available in a
compatible license. In Germany for ins
Hi!
Peter Wendorff wrote
> let's tackle the "problems" you mention one by one:
That is exactly what people have been trying for years. When I see the age
of the discussions and the lack of progress, it has failed badly.
I agree that it would be necessary to try and find a general solution for
Hi,
Thanks for all your comments so far, very constructive.
I've updated the comments to hopefully answer all of your concerns.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:landuse%3Dplot#Comments
In particular defnition seems to be key and I can confirm my definition is
from a Briti
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 11:11 AM, NopMap wrote:
> There are too many people who still believe that everything is fine or will
> fix itself given enough time and there is no need to do anything. There's
> also many people who refuse to follow any sort of guideline, e.g. rejecting
> the proposal pro
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 11:37:01PM +0100, Lukas Hornby wrote:
> Hi,
>
> For your consideration, please read and comment on my proposal to improve
> the way that allotments, particularly plots on allotments are tagged.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dplot
My initial reaction
Lukas Hornby wrote:
In particular defnition seems to be key and I can confirm my
definition is from a British perspective.
Which is fine, because OSM uses British English names for things except
in rare cases.
Community garden is different in definition, both here and in the US
(and elsew
2013/9/18 SomeoneElse
> It may well be that almost no-one has mapped allotment plots before**,
looking a bit around in Berlin, which in some areas is full of allotment
gardens, relieves that some areas are indeed mapped up to the plot. They
simply used landuse=allotments on a singular plot: e
On 9/18/2013 5:48 AM, Pieren wrote:
An additional WHERE statement can solve issues for the renderers but
they may fail to help other data consumers.
It's been my experience that data consumers don't go deep in general
to untangle tagging chaos. No one goes after that leisure=slipway
entity
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 6:22 AM, SomeoneElse
wrote:
> Lukas Hornby wrote:
>
>
> In particular defnition seems to be key and I can confirm my definition is
> from a British perspective.
>
>
> Which is fine, because OSM uses British English names for things except in
> rare cases.
The rare cases in
2013/9/18 Pieren
>
> Big +1
> We shoot ourself in the foot by keeping this chaos.
>
> This question is also related to the single contributions debacle,
> tools developers, inconsistent presets, etc
> An additional WHERE statement can solve issues for the renderers but
> they may fail to help oth
On Mon, 2013-09-16 at 16:41 +0200, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>
> - Should we use shop=betting or shop=bookmaker?
> - Should we use shop=fishmonger or shop=seafood?
Actually I think this provides an insight into where problems are seen,
and damaging mass edits occur, when in reality there is no pr
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> In British English seafood generally refers to shellfish. So a seafood
> shop will be a shop, usually at the seaside, where you buy prawns,
> mussels, cockles and things that are ready to eat, with vinegar, as you
> walk along the front. To
2013/9/18 Philip Barnes
> Actually I think this provides an insight into where problems are seen,
> and damaging mass edits occur, when in reality there is no problem and
> separate tags are in fact correct.
>
+1
>
> In British English seafood generally refers to shellfish. So a seafood
> sh
On 16 September 2013 19:45, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> If you want to solve ambiguities it would be better to start new threads
> for every tag or type of tag and set an appropriate subject.
>
I am planning to do that (at least for the shop key), but before doing
that, I am first trying to get
Harry Wood is, I believe a Londoner. I am a Midlander, there are certainly
cultural differences, regarding shellfish between the two regions.
Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Nokia N9
On 18/09/2013 14:15 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2013/9/18 Philip Barnes
Actually I think this provides an
Dear all,
Thanks for all the answers. It seems that there is consensus about some
points:
- To know how to tag, it is necessary to look at both actual use, taginfo,
and the wiki.
- It is important to document the way tags are used on the wiki.
- The wiki should be adapted to the outcome of voting
I think that the "seafood" example is a classic case of why this will
always be an issue and why there can never be concensus. A "seafood shop"
to me, a Brit all my life, not only sells shellfish but other kinds of
seafood. The difference to me is that a "fishmonger" only sells raw fish
whereas a s
2013/9/18 Matthijs Melissen
> Don't change the wiki definitions of established tags without discussion,
>> even less if its a very widespread tag. Many of these edits are part of the
>> problem.
>>
>
> Do you also see a problem with changing the wiki to reflect actual usage,
> or are you just war
I am a newcomer to OSM but as a newcomer I do not see the so called "lack
of concensus" as any kind of issue. People call things by different names
and whereas it is of benefit to have concensus on the framework items I can
see no issue regarding the use of locally accepted tags for items in
gener
The wiki pages for bookmaker, betting, and fishmonger have been added by
me. After adding a couple of such pages, I realized writing proper
documentation is harder than it seems (i definitely agree with the
criticism about these pages), so that's why I decided to start a broader
discussion on this
2013/9/18 Paul Churchley
> I think that the "seafood" example is a classic case of why this will
> always be an issue and why there can never be concensus. A "seafood shop"
> to me, a Brit all my life, not only sells shellfish but other kinds of
> seafood. The difference to me is that a "fishmong
Am 18.09.2013 11:26, schrieb Lukas Hornby:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for all your comments so far, very constructive.
>
> I've updated the comments to hopefully answer all of your
> concerns.
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:landuse%3Dplot#Comments
>
> In particular defnition
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:56 PM, David Earl wrote:
> The problem is that it is almost impossible to write, and more importantly,
> keep up-to-date a data consumer (like a specialized map of shops, in the
> examples people have been talking about) in an anarchic free-for-all where
> tags come and
On 09/18/2013 09:17 AM, fly wrote:
Am 18.09.2013 11:26, schrieb Lukas Hornby:
Hi,
Thanks for all your comments so far, very constructive.
I've updated the comments to hopefully answer all of your
concerns.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:landuse%3Dplot#Comments
In pa
What is the essential difference between plot and lot in an OSM context?
Dictionaries often seem to treat them as synonyms when applying to a
"patch of land". But I'm a Brit... What's the US/AUS/CDN/NZ/etc view on
this?
Colin
On 2013-09-18 16:35, John F. Eldredge wrote:
> On 09/18/2013 09:1
When I think about making sense of tags, I always come back to the idea to
use our version of Wikidata, maybe OSMdata, which can be installed as an
extension of osm mediawiki.
In it we can connect meanings of various tags to wikipedia.org definitions,
and connect tags to other tags.
For example,
2013/9/18 Colin Smale
> What is the essential difference between plot and lot in an OSM context?
> Dictionaries often seem to treat them as synonyms when applying to a "patch
> of land". But I'm a Brit... What's the US/AUS/CDN/NZ/etc view on this?
taking into account that this is about a subd
On 18/09/2013 15:36, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:56 PM, David Earl wrote:
The problem is that it is almost impossible to write, and more importantly,
keep up-to-date a data consumer (like a specialized map of shops, in the
examples people have been talking
Yes, I can see what you mean and I can see why having a standard set of
tags would help in mapping etc.
However, isn't it accepted within OSM that tags are open. In fact, I
attended the State of the Map conference a couple of weeks ago and I raised
this very point. I asked, as a newcomer, what sho
Colin Smale wrote:
>
>
> What is the essential difference between plot and lot in an OSM
> context?
> Dictionaries often seem to treat them as synonyms when applying to a
> "patch of land". But I'm a Brit... What's the US/AUS/CDN/NZ/etc view
> on
> this?
>
> Colin
>
> On 2013-09-18 16:35, Jo
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
taking into account that this is about a subdivison of
landuse=allotments and not applotments it sounds reasonable to use
"lot" ;-)
I note the smiley, but FWIW they're a different root, apparently:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/allot
http://en.wiktionary.org/wik
2013/9/18 John F. Eldredge :
> Colin Smale wrote:
>>
>> What is the essential difference between plot and lot in an OSM context?
>> Dictionaries often seem to treat them as synonyms when applying to a "patch
>> of land". But I'm a Brit... What's the US/AUS/CDN/NZ/etc view on this?
>>
>> Colin
>>
>
On 18/09/2013 12:04, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
I still have yet to find a definition of "lot". Can someone point me
to one that is unabigious, from Wikipedia or a dictionary? Wikipedia's
definition of lot is the same as my own:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_lot (that is what comes up when y
Am 18.09.2013 19:15, schrieb Lukas Hornby:
> In terms of procedure, should I rename the proposal, or abandon it and
> start a new?
Renaming should be Ok as it was not tagged much and is only a few days
old. Maybe right a note about landuse=* and why renaming.
cu
fly
___
On 18/09/13 18:15, Lukas Hornby wrote:
HI,
Having studied all of the comments, we seem to agree that a tag is
needed, that it is worth tagging. However the ambiguity over plot
(which was the word I used in my proposal and lot (which has been read
into plot) seems to be a sticking point.
I a
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Paul Churchley wrote:
> As a newcomer I always search, search and search again, both on the wiki and
> on ItoWorld, for tags to use and so far I have not had to invent any myself
> but I can imagine other newcomers, less determined to only use existing tags
> when
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> ... IMHO if there is a definition in the wiki and someone then tags
> something with this tag you have to believe that he followed that
> definition, at least until you can find a consensus to change this
> definition. The most you sho
On 09/18/2013 11:45 AM, Dan S wrote:
2013/9/18 John F. Eldredge :
Colin Smale wrote:
What is the essential difference between plot and lot in an OSM context?
Dictionaries often seem to treat them as synonyms when applying to a "patch
of land". But I'm a Brit... What's the US/AUS/CDN/NZ/etc vie
HI,
Having studied all of the comments, we seem to agree that a tag is needed,
that it is worth tagging. However the ambiguity over plot (which was the
word I used in my proposal and lot (which has been read into plot) seems to
be a sticking point.
I am moved to resubmit this proposal under the n
On 18/09/2013 18:15, Lukas Hornby wrote:
> HI,
>
> Having studied all of the comments, we seem to agree that a tag is
> needed, that it is worth tagging. However the ambiguity over plot (which
> was the word I used in my proposal and lot (which has been read into
> plot) seems to be a sticking poi
ItoWorld provide a simple way to interogate the OSM database for tag use.
That is really my point I think. Anyone can add any tags they wish and all
the time that is permitted, or even encouraged as I have found, then there
will be no concensus in the way that I think this thread is discussing.
I
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