> No! Flood prone means that they are expected to be flooded from time to
> time. Nothing about the design.
So you would have to tag also each wadi, each river and each lake
because this area is covered with water? Maybe the terms “designed”
and “expected” are missleading. But the question is: How
> Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
> Sat Jan 17 21:27:13 UTC 2015
>
> Less work if intermittent is simply used without the frequency extension
> .. thus:
>
> intermittent=yes/no/winter/spring/summer/autum/seasonal/ephemeral (default
> assumption of "no")
>
> Note 'fall' = northern American engl
On 21/01/2015 10:03 AM, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 14:43:16 +
From: Lukas Sommer
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
Subject: Re: [Tagging] waterway=wadi problem
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UT
> The flood prone areas are not designed to let you cross a river
Yes. I think that is exactly the important point and a very good
description/criterion. flood_prone=yes for things that are _not_
designed to be flooded. And waterway=*, ford=* … for things that _are_
designed/expected to be flooded
I think using flood_prone on places designed to handle water (like a ford) is
incorrect. The sections of a freeway that are closed off during flooding (a
lane is closed because storm waters cannot properly drain away, or cuttings
under train crossings with flood level markers because the road fl
>>> Some part of road have
>>> concrete parts that are flood_prone during cyclone.
>>>
>>> How can we (or not) extend it to roads?
>>
>>
>> access:conditional = no @ flood
>
> I'm using flood_prone=yes. With surface=concrete.
>
> But I was looking for some method to unify intermittent aspects
althio althio a ?crit :
On 19 January 2015 at 13:42, Eric SIBERT wrote:
One may also not that road are also subject to intermittent (un)usability.
Some unpaved one are closed during rainy season.
something with conditional?
access:conditional = no @ (Jan-Apr)
This is what I'm using up t
On 19 January 2015 at 13:42, Eric SIBERT wrote:
> One may also not that road are also subject to intermittent (un)usability.
> Some unpaved one are closed during rainy season. Some part of road have
> concrete parts that are flood_prone during cyclone.
>
> How can we (or not) extend it to roads?
I'm following this thread since the beginning. I'm interested in
intermittent river for Madagascar
(http://osm.org/go/lrsj4--?relation=447325). There is mostly a dry
season and a wet/rainy season from December to April. There is also
around 3 cyclones a year.
Some rivers (or part of river) o
My main suggestion would be to re-use the same scheme as
Key:opening_hours to define the time when the waterway is likely to
flow.
I would also discard rare/frequent as too subjective. Instead:
approximate duration are not perfect but should improve mutual
understanding.
For instance as in:
waterw
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:14:53PM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
> >
> > usually you will assume it if there are ponds of open water or swamps
> > in several places along a valley.
>
> A pond/swamp/oasis/cienega in an arid or even semi-arid area is a significant
> feature that deserve mapping in its
On Jan 17, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Steve Doerr wrote:
> On 17/01/2015 21:27, Warin wrote:
>
>> Note 'fall' = northern American english, 'autum' for english english ?
>
> No, it's 'autumn' in British English.
>>
>> Comments: An intermittent=winter may not flow every winter .. but it is
>> 'expected
On 17/01/2015 21:27, Warin wrote:
Note 'fall' = northern American english, 'autum' for english english ?
No, it's 'autumn' in British English.
Comments: An intermittent=winter may not flow every winter .. but it is
'expected' to flow in winter. This year the 'Todd River' flowed in central
On 18/01/2015 7:47 AM, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:14:53 -0800
From: Tod Fitch
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
Subject: Re: [Tagging] waterway=wadi problem
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The mo
On Jan 17, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Richard Z. wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 07:50:36AM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
>
>>
>> Based on where I sometimes see old wind driven pumps, I'd guess that many
>> longer (10s of miles long) washes have an underground flow.
>
> I think so.
>
>> On the other hand
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 07:50:36AM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
>
> Based on where I sometimes see old wind driven pumps, I'd guess that many
> longer (10s of miles long) washes have an underground flow.
I think so.
> On the other hand, in the field or using Bing imagery neither I nor any other
>
On Jan 17, 2015, at 4:47 AM, Richard Z. wrote:
> in principle yes. We need a value to indicate that surface water is
> intermittent or rare but there is a persistent underground waterflow
> following the riverbed which is a frequent feature of wadi's (unlike
> washes where this seems rare)
>
>
Please, no "intermittent=ephemeral". Key intermittent was defined to have
only a single valid value,
turning it into free-form tag is a bad idea.
Maybe intermittent=yes, intermittent:type=ephemeral?
2015-01-17 13:47 GMT+01:00 Richard Z. :
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 02:44:27PM -0800, Tod Fitch wro
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 02:44:27PM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
> Since the current term wadi can mean something more than the actual
> watercourse, why not drop it and use "ephemeral=yes" or
> "intermittent=ephemeral" on waterway=* to indicate that it carries water much
> less often than a waterway
Since the current term wadi can mean something more than the actual
watercourse, why not drop it and use "ephemeral=yes" or
"intermittent=ephemeral" on waterway=* to indicate that it carries water much
less often than a waterway tagged with "intermittent=yes"?
___
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 08:23:33AM -0800, Tod Fitch wrote:
> Since we are supposed to use British English, I decided to look up wadi in my
> old paper edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (can we trust that more
> than Wikipedia?):
>
> "Wadi or Wady [Arabic: وادي wādī] In certain Arabic spe
Since we are supposed to use British English, I decided to look up wadi in my
old paper edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (can we trust that more than
Wikipedia?):
"Wadi or Wady [Arabic: وادي wādī] In certain Arabic speaking countries, a
ravine or valley which in the rainy season become
I now notice that I read the German Wikipedia entry for Wadi, which is
plainly different form the English one. My fault.
The English Wikipedia defines Wadi mainly as a valley, wheras the German on
as a normally dry water course.
On 16 January 2015 at 13:02, Richard Z. wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:41:26AM +0900, johnw wrote:
> I strongly disagree. A wadi is usually only an active river through very rare
> flash flood events, and almost never any other time. Entire biomes are
> defined by the presence of (and situated in) a wadi.
>
how about reading wikipedia?
Looking around in Wikipedia:
Wash = Arroyo = Barranca = Wadi = Rambla = normally dry river bed, often
subject to flash floods in case of upstream rain.
If we have the the established term wadi for this, why create additional
nearly synonymous tags?
>
__
That’s all of San Diego - the storm drain system is so anemic - I’ve
hydroplaned my car down the freeway (“Surfing interstate 5”), and forded a few
“intermittent” rivers before I moved to Japan. here in Japan, torrential rain
is really a non-issue most of the time - whereas a few cm of rain in S
> On Jan 15, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
> On Thursday 15 January 2015, johnw wrote:
>>
>> A wadi is a place where flash floods occur. It is not an intermittent
>> river - it isn’t really seasonally wet, and doesn’t provide any real
>> expectation that water will be present (
Given the current discussion, I wonder if roads that are usually flooded
during heavy rainfall should be also be tagged as waterway=river/stream and
intermittent=yes. ;-)
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:27 AM, John F. Eldredge
wrote:
> I would recommend expanding the definition of "intermittent stream
as far as I am aware, a wash, an arroyo, and a wadi are functionally the same.
It is mostly a separation of language - where the words wash, arroyo, and wadi
are basically the same functional thing, however Wadi and arroyo, in some
regions, also have a wider definition that includes other valley
I would recommend expanding the definition of "intermittent streams" to
include not only streams that have a regular, seasonal water flow but also
streams in desert areas that exist only when a rare storm comes along. The
topography is the same, the tendency of water to run downhill is the same,
On Thursday 15 January 2015, johnw wrote:
>
> A wadi is a place where flash floods occur. It is not an intermittent
> river - it isn’t really seasonally wet, and doesn’t provide any real
> expectation that water will be present (except deep underground) -
> because they are located in places where
> Am 15.01.2015 um 05:27 schrieb John Willis :
>
> I'm really surprised you were "shot down" from using wadi when it is the most
> applicable tag for the item,
sometimes the most applicable tag is not sufficiently well describing/
distinguishing a feature and it is better to introduce a n
I’ll make one up in the next few hours. I want to research wadis in other
countries to make sure I’m not assuming my regional experience is
misrepresenting the whole.
Javbw
> On Jan 15, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>
> Can you consider making proposal for waterway=wadi on wiki?
Can you consider making proposal for waterway=wadi on wiki?
Or maybe other tag, as waterway=wadi is frequently used to mark
intermittent streams?
Currently http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Dwadi is
not mentioning anything like that.
Note, I am not disputing usefulness of term wadi
> On Jan 15, 2015, at 2:00 AM, Tod Fitch wrote:
>
>> On Jan 14, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Wolfgang Zenker wrote:
>> In my experience a wadi will go from "completely dried up waterway" or
>> "small stream" to a raging river within a few seconds after some
>> rainfall upstream, and back to its former sel
I strongly disagree. A wadi is usually only an active river through very rare
flash flood events, and almost never any other time. Entire biomes are defined
by the presence of (and situated in) a wadi.
In america, the words Arroyo and wash roughly translate into wadi, and because
of the ambig
"It would be nice if the default rendering at www.openstreetmap.org would
also recognize the intermittent tag."
Implementing that I mentioned in top post is for default style - see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1000
2015-01-14 18:00 GMT+01:00 Tod Fitch :
> On Jan 14, 2
On Wednesday 14 January 2015, Tod Fitch wrote:
> [...]
>
> The United States Geological Survey (USGS) topographic maps will show
> them as either a line of sand or an intermittent waterway depending,
> I think, on whim of the cartographer.
USGS data distinguishes between intermittent, perennial an
On Jan 14, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Wolfgang Zenker wrote:
> * Mateusz Konieczny [150114 15:45]:
>> waterway=wadi is used (18 180 times) and has some support (for example JOSM
>> and default map style).
>
>> During implementing rendering of intermittent=yes I discovered major
>> problem with this tag -
* Mateusz Konieczny [150114 15:45]:
> waterway=wadi is used (18 180 times) and has some support (for example JOSM
> and default map style).
> During implementing rendering of intermittent=yes I discovered major
> problem with this tag -
> the same waterway=wadi may be used for completely dried up
waterway=wadi is used (18 180 times) and has some support (for example JOSM
and
default map style).
During implementing rendering of intermittent=yes I discovered major
problem with this tag -
the same waterway=wadi may be used for completely dried up waterway,
intermittent stream,
intermittent ma
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