> They would (continue to) point at the already existing beezer.
> Beezer's book wouldn't explicitly reference beezer, since all
> references should be relative in that collection of worksheets.
Yes, but then you probably sooner or later need a tool for merging two
such collections of worksheets.
> Where do the crossreferences point? Do I get an error and have to
> manually reassign all possible labels on the second version of the book?
There is no right answer. Sometimes, I want uploads from different
sources to be able to refer to each other's pages simply because they
have the same l
> Moving the default out of the .sage folder by default would probably
> not get accepted, but that wouldn't really fix your issues anyways
> (and you can store the files in whatever folder you want right now).
Well, there is a whole bunch of issues, and you picked the least
important. Mere
> I think the point is that if an application has to store anything in a
> user directory, a dot directory is a consistent one to create and use.
> Most applications store data as actual files somewhere on the
> filesystem, so the only stuff left to store is configuration data. The
> notebo
William Stein wrote:
> I like this proposal. In fact, it's basically what I just wrote
> above, and what I plan to implement, though the user interface should
> be more html-ish rather than latex-ish (i.e., and no
> backslashes).
>
> William
>
>
Yes, I noticed that you wrote the answer to my
Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>> With my design -- which just happens to be the bog
>> standard design that is used everywhere (web pages, etc.), imho --
>> even autogenerated references would work fine (since they are
>> relative). Plus, sticking with a standard design means it will be
>> easier for p
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Robert Bradshaw
wrote:
> On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:26 PM, William Stein wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Jason Grout
>> wrote:
>>> William Stein wrote:
>>>
> I guess what I'm advocating is that it would be useful for the
> underlying ID to be (prob
On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:26 PM, William Stein wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Jason Grout
> wrote:
>> William Stein wrote:
>>
I guess what I'm advocating is that it would be useful for the
underlying ID to be (probabilistically) globally unique, not just
unique for a user or
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Bradshaw
wrote:
> On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:54 AM, William Stein wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Robert Bradshaw
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you misunderstood my proposal--
>>
>> Yes, I'm sure I did, since I also don't understand your further
>>
On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:54 AM, William Stein wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Robert Bradshaw
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think you misunderstood my proposal--
>
> Yes, I'm sure I did, since I also don't understand your further
> explanation of it below.
>
>> all the user would see is the
>> frien
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Jason Grout
wrote:
> William Stein wrote:
>
>>> I guess what I'm advocating is that it would be useful for the
>>> underlying ID to be (probabilistically) globally unique, not just
>>> unique for a user or a specific notebook server.
>>
>> (1) How is that useful?
>
William Stein wrote:
>> I guess what I'm advocating is that it would be useful for the
>> underlying ID to be (probabilistically) globally unique, not just
>> unique for a user or a specific notebook server.
>
> (1) How is that useful?
> (2) Why don't web pages, wiki pages (?), latex documents, e
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Robert Bradshaw
wrote:
> On Dec 8, 2009, at 10:17 AM, William Stein wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Robert Bradshaw
>> wrote:
>>> On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:49 AM, Stan Schymanski wrote:
>>>
Robert Bradshaw wrote:
[SNIP]
> Making notebook IDs t
On Dec 8, 2009, at 10:17 AM, William Stein wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Robert Bradshaw
> wrote:
>> On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:49 AM, Stan Schymanski wrote:
>>
>>> Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>>> [SNIP]
Making notebook IDs that are not simply consecutive
integers would solve nearly all
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Stan Schymanski wrote:
> Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> [SNIP]
>> Making notebook IDs that are not simply consecutive
>> integers would solve nearly all of your issues above, and I think a
>> lot of people (myself included) would appreciate that. Either short
>> names or
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Robert Bradshaw
wrote:
> On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:49 AM, Stan Schymanski wrote:
>
>> Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>> [SNIP]
>>> Making notebook IDs that are not simply consecutive
>>> integers would solve nearly all of your issues above, and I think a
>>> lot of people (mysel
On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:49 AM, Stan Schymanski wrote:
> Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> [SNIP]
>> Making notebook IDs that are not simply consecutive
>> integers would solve nearly all of your issues above, and I think a
>> lot of people (myself included) would appreciate that. Either short
>> names or glob
Robert Bradshaw wrote:
[SNIP]
> Making notebook IDs that are not simply consecutive
> integers would solve nearly all of your issues above, and I think a
> lot of people (myself included) would appreciate that. Either short
> names or globally unique identifiers (or some combination of both)
2009/12/7 Robert Bradshaw :
> On Dec 6, 2009, at 6:40 AM, tmb wrote:
>
I'm sorry to say, but the way I see it, there is really a serious
problem with Sage notebooks right now.
>>>
>>> Please, please, fix it. I've never had any of the issues you're
>>> describing, but it sounds like you ha
On Dec 6, 2009, at 6:40 AM, tmb wrote:
>>> I'm sorry to say, but the way I see it, there is really a serious
>>> problem with Sage notebooks right now.
>>
>> Please, please, fix it. I've never had any of the issues you're
>> describing, but it sounds like you have a lot of reproducible bugs
>> o
On Dec 6, 2009, at 6:37 AM, tmb wrote:
>> SSH uses $HOME/.ssh
>> Thunderbird uses $HOME/.thunderbird
>> Mathematica uses $HOMe/.Mathematica
>>
>> Lots of programs do put configuration data in directories which
>> start with a dot.
>
> Yes, lots of programs put _configuration_ data in dot directo
> > I'm sorry to say, but the way I see it, there is really a serious
> > problem with Sage notebooks right now.
>
> Please, please, fix it. I've never had any of the issues you're
> describing, but it sounds like you have a lot of reproducible bugs on your
> machine.
These are the bugs/limita
> SSH uses $HOME/.ssh
> Thunderbird uses $HOME/.thunderbird
> Mathematica uses $HOMe/.Mathematica
>
> Lots of programs do put configuration data in directories which start with a
> dot.
Yes, lots of programs put _configuration_ data in dot directories.
Few programs put content, documents, or sof
On Dec 5, 2009, at 12:20 AM, tmb wrote:
>
>> I think they will be. 4.1.2 was a major change to the notebook,
>> things
>> should be stabilizing from here on out. Of course, there's lots of
>> room for improvement, and I do appreciate your feedback.
>
> Well, I still have a backup file with works
> Well, not even scripts behave well when the OS goes down.
The problem here is not that Sage messes up the notebooks, even in a
big, bad way; that can happen with any software.
The problem is that, even though I have made manual backups, it's
going to take hours of work to fix it.
And it takes
tmb wrote:
>> None that I use I guess. There are no visible top-level folders in my
>> home directory that I didn't put there (except the ones there on
>> account creation) and I like it that way. I guess it's a manner of
>> preference, but at lest it's consistent.
>
> Consistent with what?
> I think they will be. 4.1.2 was a major change to the notebook, things
> should be stabilizing from here on out. Of course, there's lots of
> room for improvement, and I do appreciate your feedback.
Well, I still have a backup file with worksheets that are a couple of
weeks old, plus a running
> None that I use I guess. There are no visible top-level folders in my
> home directory that I didn't put there (except the ones there on
> account creation) and I like it that way. I guess it's a manner of
> preference, but at lest it's consistent.
Consistent with what? Traditional UNIX a
On 5/12/2009, at 8:29 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>> such a functionality. After this is done, one has to wait just a bit
>>> to see
>>> requests for Sage notebooks to be able to work as an e-mail
>>> client :-)
>>
>> See the email() command :).
> huh? It does not seem to be possible to locate d
>> such a functionality. After this is done, one has to wait just a bit
>> to see
>> requests for Sage notebooks to be able to work as an e-mail client :-)
>
> See the email() command :).
huh? It does not seem to be possible to locate documentation on this...
Certainly not in various indices, and p
On Dec 4, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> 2009/12/5 Robert Bradshaw :
>> On Dec 4, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>
>>> 2009/12/5 Robert Bradshaw :
On Dec 4, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> just a side remark - IMHO notebooks are not designed for any
2009/12/5 Jason Grout :
> Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>> I referred to an apparent missing feature of exporting notebook cells
>> into a Sage script.
> One way to do this is to press control-backspace in the bottom cell a
> bunch of times until all the cells' code is in one cell (that keystroke
> join
2009/12/5 Robert Bradshaw :
> On Dec 4, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>> 2009/12/5 Robert Bradshaw :
>>> On Dec 4, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>>
just a side remark - IMHO notebooks are not designed for any kind of
large-scope project.
>>>
>>> There's no reason th
On Dec 4, 2009, at 12:20 PM, tmb wrote:
>
>>> -- For single user mode, put all the worksheets in ~/SageMath (that
>>> tells me that I'm supposed to look at them)
>>
>> It's standard to make a .foo directory to hold application defaults
>> and data. Making a visible top-level directory is more inva
On Dec 4, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> 2009/12/5 Robert Bradshaw :
>> On Dec 4, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>
>>> just a side remark - IMHO notebooks are not designed for any kind of
>>> large-scope project.
>>
>> There's no reason they couldn't be.
> I meant a project th
Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> I referred to an apparent missing feature of exporting notebook cells
> into a Sage script.
>
One way to do this is to press control-backspace in the bottom cell a
bunch of times until all the cells' code is in one cell (that keystroke
joins the current cell with the c
2009/12/5 Robert Bradshaw :
> On Dec 4, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>> just a side remark - IMHO notebooks are not designed for any kind of
>> large-scope project.
>
> There's no reason they couldn't be.
I meant a project that takes a lot of computing power (CPU/memory/disk space).
I
Tom,
interestingly, you ask for, essentially, a large part of functionality
of, say, Unix
development toolchain to be available in notebooks setting, and
rudiments of an OS, too.
Reminds me of that quote that says something along the lines that every
large program needs a garbage collector. :)
Best
> Incidentally, please feel free to be explicit about what features are
> missing for you to use it for research - and, if possible, any open
> source projects which *do* have such features and would be possible to
> add to Sage, especially Python, C, or C++ libraries.
My research involves numeric
> > -- For single user mode, put all the worksheets in ~/SageMath (that
> > tells me that I'm supposed to look at them)
>
> It's standard to make a .foo directory to hold application defaults
> and data. Making a visible top-level directory is more invasive.
Dotfiles contain application default
On Dec 4, 2009, at 3:39 AM, tmb wrote:
>> You can put the .sage/sage_notebook.sagenb/home/ directory under
>> revision control. You should probably only hg add the
>> worksheet.html
>> and worksheet_conf.pickle files, and ignore everything else.
>
> That doesn't really work with the current di
On Dec 4, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> just a side remark - IMHO notebooks are not designed for any kind of
> large-scope project.
There's no reason they couldn't be.
> For the latter, you are much better off with good old scripts.
> Notebooks certainly have their own pluses, such a
> I'm not even attempting to use it for my research yet. For that,
> there really are some features missing.
Incidentally, please feel free to be explicit about what features are
missing for you to use it for research - and, if possible, any open
source projects which *do* have such features an
Tom,
I'm contemplating using Sage for teaching an OR course next term, but
I won't touch notebooks.
I'd just use plain-text scripts. Yes, this would require having Sage
installed on a server, where
they would be able to run "usual" interactive sessions. Nothing is
wrong with such setup, IMHO...
Dm
On Dec 4, 1:53 pm, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> just a side remark - IMHO notebooks are not designed for any kind of
> large-scope project.
I'm not using them for a "large-scope project", I'm using them for
teaching pattern recognition and image processing. That means that I
create lots of simple not
just a side remark - IMHO notebooks are not designed for any kind of
large-scope project.
For the latter, you are much better off with good old scripts.
Notebooks certainly have their own pluses, such as more interactivity
and ease of collaboration---but not
sharing, as was demonstrated here recent
Note, incidentally, that restoring from backup (whether in parts or
not) is a major problem because the paths to the notebooks change.
So, links that I put into the lecture notes point to the wrong
notebooks, or are just dead.
That's another reason why the current naming scheme really needs to
cha
> You can put the .sage/sage_notebook.sagenb/home/ directory under
> revision control. You should probably only hg add the worksheet.html
> and worksheet_conf.pickle files, and ignore everything else.
That doesn't really work with the current directory structure. For
example, imagine I add two
> One thing you could do is submit bug reports, especially with
> reproducible answers.
If I could, I would. Unfortunately, these are rare events, they just
have a big impact when they happen. They may be related to crashes,
unclean shutdowns, browser crashes, etc. Many variables and rare
eve
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