[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:57 AM, William Stein wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm giving a plenary talk at ISSAC in Linz, Austria this summer. I'm > supposed > to write a 2-page "abstract/paper" for the proceedings. I just wrote > something: > >http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/tmp/abstract.

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

BTW, asking for contributors is the surest way to get zero contributors. You should invite people to try Sage (online) and to download it so it runs faster. Also, I thought of another great reason why they would like Sage. Many of these people write their own libraries. Then you have to write i

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Apr 29, 11:57 pm, "William Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm giving a plenary talk at ISSAC in Linz, Austria this summer.  I'm supposed > to write a 2-page "abstract/paper" for the proceedings.  I just wrote > something: >    http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/tmp/abstract.pdf I t

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

I would be interested in real word use cases, which demonstrate, why such a system is needed. E.g., I think Simon king did some cool things involving at least Singular, GAP, Cython... On 30 Apr., 12:00, Roman Pearce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > BTW, asking for contributors is the surest way to ge

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

I like it but perhaps I am prejudiced:-) IMHO, SAGE would be dead (or at least a very lonely research project) if it weren't for the fact that it is free and open source. But also, design is an important factor. Some ideas (I hesitate to call them suggestions since it seems fine as is): 1. replac

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

I agree somewhat with others here that you might want to make this a little more 'technical'. I would start with your sentence "Sage itself is..." - describe what it is first, then some of its capabilities and technical advantages. As far as open-source and free, I think the best thing is to hig

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

Dear Michael, On Apr 30, 12:15 pm, Michael Brickenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would be interested in real word use cases, which demonstrate, why > such a system is needed. > E.g., I think Simon king did some cool > things involving at least Singular, GAP, Cython... Do you call the compu

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

Hi, On Apr 30, 12:26 pm, "David Joyner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3. A specific example could be mentioned which smoothly integrates several > systems. As Michael B suggests, a group invariant computation in a number > field mixes GAP (for groups), Pari for the number field (is this correct?),

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

Hi Simon! > Do you call the computation of cohomology rings of finite p-groups a > "real world application"?? Sorry, I used the wrong terms. I meant something like: nothing synthetic, just composing a few features, but demonstrating, how SAGE can be used to compute an actual research problem. I w

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

By the way, for me it matters most that Python is a *beautiful* language. Michael On 30 Apr., 14:02, Michael Brickenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Simon!> Do you call the computation of cohomology rings of finite p-groups > a > > "real world application"?? > > Sorry, I used the wrong ter

[sage-devel] Fwd: Fwd: [sage-devel] A Sage Enhancement Proposal: Lattice Modules

-- Forwarded message -- From: Gabriele Nebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 6:18 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [sage-devel] A Sage Enhancement Proposal: Lattice Modules To: William Stein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear William, I am in the moment on a conference in Albania and e

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Simon King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear Michael, > > > On Apr 30, 12:15 pm, Michael Brickenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I would be interested in real word use cases, which demonstrate, why > > such a system is needed. > > E.g., I think Simon kin

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Bill Page <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:57 AM, William Stein wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm giving a plenary talk at ISSAC in Linz, Austria this summer. I'm > supposed > > to write a 2-page "abstract/paper" for the proceedings

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Roman Pearce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Apr 29, 11:57 pm, "William Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm giving a plenary talk at ISSAC in Linz, Austria this summer. I'm > supposed > > to write a 2-page "abstract/paper" for the proceedings. I just

[sage-devel] Re: Symlinks to sage don't work unless ...

Many thanks. Regards, Max --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: h

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:26 AM, David Joyner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I like it but perhaps I am prejudiced:-) IMHO, SAGE would be dead (or at > least > a very lonely research project) if it weren't for the fact that it is > free and open source. Sage would certainly not be dead even i

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

> You seem to be anti-open source in your own work, > which is what *really* matters to you. It's my understanding > that you've written a very interesting library in computer > algebra and it is closed source. Correct me if I'm wrong, > but I have the impression you generally don't see the val

[sage-devel] Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

Hi, I don't know if that is of any interest but someone around here might care about the fact that Sage was probably the most mentioned (and cited) mathematics software at the "First Conference for Symbolic Computation and Cryptography" (SCC 2008) in Beijing. Specifically, these authors/pape

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

Dear Martin, dear William, On Apr 30, 4:39 pm, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If I > understood the e-mail correctly then Roman implied that at *this particular > meeting* asking for contributors might be perceived as annoying? Thus he > shared his opinion to help us to make the Sa

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > You seem to be anti-open source in your own work, > > which is what *really* matters to you. It's my understanding > > that you've written a very interesting library in computer > > algebra and it is closed sour

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I don't know if that is of any interest but someone around here might care > about the fact that Sage was probably the most mentioned (and cited) > mathematics software at the "First Conference for Symbolic

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:53 AM, William Stein wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Bill Page wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:57 AM, William Stein wrote: > > > > > > I'm giving a plenary talk at ISSAC in Linz, Austria this summer. I'm > supposed > > > to write a 2-pa

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Martin Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I don't know if that is of any interest but someone around here might care > about the fact that Sage was probably the most mentioned (and cited) > mathematics software at the "First Conference for Symboli

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Bill Page <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] Bill, Thanks for elaborating and clarifying your thoughts. I've posted a new version of the abstract here: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/tmp/abstract2.pdf You guys might dislike it even more. We'll see :

[sage-devel] Fwd: [Cython] Porting the Docs

Hi, Cython now has beautiful-to-behold documentation. See below. -- Forwarded message -- From: Gabriel Gellner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [Cython] Porting the Docs To: Cython-dev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So I have finished the first rough mo

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

> So, I vote +1 to include it at least as an optional package. Making it > a standard part of SAGE > should IMHO wait until a solid FreeGroup and FinitelyPresentedGroup > (Python) class are created for SAGE. If I had more time I would do this > myself. Yeah, it would be great if SAGE had support

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

Dear William, in line 3, it should be "could", not "ncould". IMO, you should mention Cython. In fact, i started to use Sage mainly because Cython made it possible to easily use the C-programs of my boss. Otherwise i would have had tried to do everything in Singular. But i guess you will mention

[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: Fwd: [sage-devel] A Sage Enhancement Proposal: Lattice Modules

I think we also want some version of Denis Simon's indefinite LLL. As a student of Henri Cohen he may have sworn a lifetime vow of allegiance to pari; otherwise this might be something we could use to lure him into Sage! John 2008/4/30 William Stein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > -- Forward

[sage-devel] Re: ISSAC abstract

On Apr 30, 8:09 am, "William Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The "open source philosophy" is the entire reason for the > existence of Sage. That may be true, but it won't sell. There have been other open source systems before Sage (Axiom, Maxima, ...) and very good specialized systems (Singu

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

>> >> I don't know if that is of any interest but someone around here might care >> about the fact that Sage was probably the most mentioned (and cited) >> mathematics software at the "First Conference for Symbolic Computation and >> Cryptography" (SCC 2008) in Beijing. >> >> Specifically, th

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:35 PM, root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >> I don't know if that is of any interest but someone around here might > care > >> about the fact that Sage was probably the most mentioned (and cited) > >> mathematics software at the "First Conference for Symbo

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Apr 30, 7:43 pm, "David Joyner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:35 PM, root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > >  (disclaimer: I'm the person who set up the Magnus sourceforge site > >  and I worked for Gilbert Baumslag at City College) Once I saw Magnus mentioned I figu

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:13 AM, mabshoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Apr 30, 7:43 pm, "David Joyner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:35 PM, root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > (disclaimer: I'm the person who set up the Magnus sourceforge site >

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Apr 30, 2008, at 4:50 PM, root wrote: > But we've already had this discussion and it is clear that I'm > completely out-in-the-weeds, talking-nonsense, and obviously have > no idea how REAL-open-source-projects are done. So lets just leave > it where it left off before, which is that I've sim

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

>Wasn't Magnus Tim Daly's main example of a project in trouble >development and usage-wise? From this thread: >http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/browse_thread/thread/c65e235f83cb2cd1/93b5dc531e50bb1c?lnk=gst&q=magnus#93b5dc531e50bb1c > >Tim wrote: >"the only person >who can properly main

[sage-devel] why do we not use malb's libsingular wrappings by default?

Hi, How come we use the pexpect interface for singular to compute the groebner basis as the default? It seems to me we should be using malb's excellent libsingular wrapper. sage: R. = PolynomialRing(QQ,order='degrevlex') sage: I=(x^2+3*x*y/2+y^2/2-3*x/2-3*y/2,x*y^2-x,y^3-y)*R sage: %timeit I.gro

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

Hi Tim, I compiled the last snapshot and it compiled in decent time, i.e. 14 minutes CPU time on sage.math. On the other hand: I couldn't find the python bindings, neither in the sf tarball nor the sf svn/cvs repo. Any pointers? I couldn't find any reference to python in any file: [EMAIL PROTEC

[sage-devel] Re: why do we not use malb's libsingular wrappings by default?

I'm sure Martin will answer this, but I suspect is an oversight based on common usage patterns - for most Groebner basis calculations, the overhead of pexpect is insignificant. -Marshall On Apr 30, 2:09 pm, "Yi Qiang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > How come we use the pexpect interface for s

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

mabshoff wrote: > Hi Tim, > > I compiled the last snapshot and it compiled in decent time, i.e. 14 > minutes CPU time on sage.math. > > I just compiled the sourceforge source and had to modify backend/glib++/Integer.h and Rational.h. In each of those files, there were two code blocks that de

[sage-devel] fast vs viable (offline post)

David, >> But we've already had this discussion and it is clear that I'm >> completely out-in-the-weeds, talking-nonsense, and obviously have >> no idea how REAL-open-source-projects are done. So lets just leave >> it where it left off before, which is that I've simply dropped the >> attempt to g

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

Jason, Please send me a diff-Naur patch of your changes. --Tim --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

>On the other hand: I couldn't find the python bindings, neither in the >sf tarball nor the sf svn/cvs repo. Any pointers? I couldn't find any >reference to python in any file: The python bindings were created using SWIG. I'll see if I have a copy (I no longer work at CCNY). Gilbert probably has

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

I WANT Sage to live. I want it to succeed. I want it to be the lingua-franca of the business so that we can all post our results "in Sage" at conferences. I want to be able to "drag and drop" your publication onto my system and have your code "just work", your documentation "just connect". I want

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

I think that generally new code in sage has been meeting a pretty high standard. I think I am a good test case, since I have never been to a Sage Days (except for the joint meetings in San Diego, when I was too busy to interact a whole lot with other developers), and I often try to figure out how

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On May 1, 1:06 am, root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Tim, > I WANT Sage to live. I want it to succeed. I want it to be the > lingua-franca of the business so that we can all post our results > "in Sage" at conferences. I want to be able to "drag and drop" > your publication onto my system and h

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

root wrote: > Jason, Please send me a diff-Naur patch of your changes. --Tim I'm posting here for other people who may be trying to compile it. These, of course, are quick hacks that get it to compile (equivalent to commenting out the offending lines). If there is a quick test or two that you

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

Michael, >On the other hand: I couldn't find the python bindings, neither in the >sf tarball nor the sf svn/cvs repo. Any pointers? I couldn't find any >reference to python in any file: I found a copy of it. See This will unpack into "gap_fro

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

root wrote: > I WANT Sage to live. I want it to succeed. I want it to be the > lingua-franca of the business so that we can all post our results > "in Sage" at conferences. I want to be able to "drag and drop" > your publication onto my system and have your code "just work", > your documentation "

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:38 PM, root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sage is dancing around like it has discovered something new and > wonderful. Yes, I'm certainly pretty excited about the Sage project, especially the many really interesting people involved in it! > But I've been in this busin

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

On Apr 30, 2008, at 6:38 PM, root wrote: > > David, > >>> But we've already had this discussion and it is clear that I'm >>> completely out-in-the-weeds, talking-nonsense, and obviously have >>> no idea how REAL-open-source-projects are done. So lets just leave >>> it where it left off before, w

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Jaap Spies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > root wrote: > > I WANT Sage to live. I want it to succeed. I want it to be the > > lingua-franca of the business so that we can all post our results > > "in Sage" at conferences. I want to be able to "drag and drop" >

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

>But you still haven't told me: where is all this time going to come >from? I can't magically make more time appear. I have other things to >do. It's a damn shame. and, for the record, I vote for MaryAnn. :-) Tim --~--~

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

On Apr 30, 2008, at 7:06 PM, root wrote: > I WANT Sage to live. I want it to succeed. I want it to be the > lingua-franca of the business so that we can all post our results > "in Sage" at conferences. I want to be able to "drag and drop" > your publication onto my system and have your code "jus

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

> - It suffers from the "I can do it better", do-it-yet-again-in-python >syndrome, where it will be discovered that python is too slow >so we need to rewrite it in Cython and do obscure, undocumented, >performance enhancing software hacks. Unfortunately computers live in the physica

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

On May 1, 12:51 am, "Gary Furnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >   - It suffers from the "OpenMath" communication issue (e.g. if you > >    take an Axiom expression, export it to maple, compute with it, > >    and re-import it to Axiom you have violated a lot of type > >    assumptions in Axiom

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

William Stein wrote: > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Jaap Spies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> root wrote: >> > I WANT Sage to live. I want it to succeed. I want it to be the >> > lingua-franca of the business so that we can all post our results >> > "in Sage" at conferences. I want to be ab

[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: [Cython] Porting the Docs

Yeah! This has already helped me a lot. Many thanks to everyone involved. -M. Hampton On Apr 30, 10:48 am, "William Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Cython now has beautiful-to-behold documentation. See below. > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Gabriel Gellner <[EMA

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

>> - It suffers from the "OpenMath" communication issue (e.g. if you >>take an Axiom expression, export it to maple, compute with it, >>and re-import it to Axiom you have violated a lot of type >>assumptions in Axiom, possibly violated branch cut assumptions >>(e.g. acosh), done

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

I do believe that computational mathematics needs to become a more rigorous subject. In fact, I'd like to see a piece of code written by Tim upholding the standards he is advocating, where someone has "taken the time", because I would like to compare it to my own code and get some ideas. However,

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

My point was that information on branch cuts should either A) be publicly available or B) preferably available as an export option. Mathematica and Maple both do A. Perhaps B is the better answer for open systems. In any event I stand by my point that this is only an issue because people have a

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

>I do believe that computational mathematics needs to become a more >rigorous subject. In fact, I'd like to see a piece of code written by >Tim upholding the standards he is advocating, where someone has "taken >the time", because I would like to compare it to my own code and get >some ideas. > >H

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

root wrote: > The "canonical example" which is in-plan to write is based on the > paper in src/doc/primesp.spad.pamphlet > > I obtained permission from the authors to use this paper in Axiom as > the basis for a canonical ex

[sage-devel] Re: why do we not use malb's libsingular wrappings by default?

On Thursday 01 May 2008, mhampton wrote: > I'm sure Martin will answer this, but I suspect is an oversight based > on common usage patterns - for most Groebner basis calculations, the > overhead of pexpect is insignificant. Yes, this is one reason. Another reason is that interrupting the calculat

[sage-devel] Re: Slightly OT: SCC 2008 & Braid Groups

> > * Tobias Eibach and Gunnar Völkel: Optimising Gröbner Bases on Bivium > > (used Sage to implement attack) > > * Burçin Eröcal: SCrypt: Using Symbolic Computation to Bridge the Gap > > Between Algebra and Cryptography (module for Sage) > > * Ralf-Philipp Weinmann and Johannes Buchmann: Distr

[sage-devel] Re: fast vs viable (offline post)

>My point was that information on branch cuts should either A) be >publicly available or B) preferably available as an export option. >Mathematica and Maple both do A. Perhaps B is the better answer for >open systems. In any event I stand by my point that this is only an >issue because people ha

[sage-devel] gens and ngens

Regarding ticket http://sagetrac.org/sage_trac/ticket/3045 can someone explain to me what the "gens" and "ngens" methods are supposed to mean? There seems to be a lot of inconsistency. For example: sage: ZZ.gens() (1,) These are the additive generators. Ditto here: sage: GF(7).gens() (1,)

[sage-devel] Re: gens and ngens

On Apr 30, 2008, at 10:43 PM, David Harvey wrote: > Regarding ticket > > http://sagetrac.org/sage_trac/ticket/3045 > > can someone explain to me what the "gens" and "ngens" methods are > supposed to mean? There seems to be a lot of inconsistency. For > example: > > sage: ZZ.gens() > (1,) > >

[sage-devel] Sage 3.0.1-alpha1 released!

Hello, this release should have been out two days ago, but somehow general slowness and me spending a lot of time on various porting issues did delay this release more than it should have. Gary's pbuild should now be fully functional, but it wasn't made the default build system yet. If you run e