I am a proud Hunqapillar owner and would say that one should stay since it
is the best off road option. Though assuming the hunqapillar, rodeo,
atlantis, and AHH are all made to order and don't take up stock, couldn't
we leave those off the wish list as it's not much extra effort for
Rivendell
Yeah this thread is killing me. Rodeo is my size but I have a gunnar sport
that fits the bill of a 'go fast' bike that I can't seem to find fault in
(even though the rodeo looks way better).
Someone buy this!
Chad - have you tried CL, any bites there?
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It seems to me it'd better to plug the bag, not the rack, since so few bags
are made to go with it. Seems very specialized, whereas most other front
racks will fit most other front bags. That being said, it looks like a cool
system (barsack + f15). I've seen the barsack in person and it's much n
Anyone mount Rat Trap Pass tubeless on Velocity Atlas rims? The tires are
tubeless ready but I don't think the rims are. I've asked tubeless
questions in the past and the general response I get is - if you use the
right tape and enough sealant, anything can be tubeless ;).
Thinking of buying t
3rd that. I have albastaches on my hunqapillar and hear what you're saying.
I keep going back and forth between having something upright like the
albatross with brake levers at the ends of the bars vs. albastache with
breaks in the drops and at the end of the day I prefer the albastache - the
b
I second the Map bars, they're just like the Jitensha's but wider,
especially important if you are running shifters. I have had both and would
go map again if I went that route.
Though ultimately I'd recommend Jones H Bar, but wont' work with a quill
stem (unless you had one custom made like Ph
I don't have any experience with the Ogre so I can't comment there, but in
general I've never been super into the way Surlys ride. I do really like
those Jones bars on the complete build though.
I own a hunqapillar and use it for all of those purposes and can't say
enough good things about it.
Richard - makes sense on the clem, but is the proto hunqapillar part of the
new design? would hate to hear it is becoming less of a trial bike with a
lower bb and longer cs.
On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 6:39:07 PM UTC-7, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> In regaurd to clem jr as an option, I know many
I've had my bike do the same thing to me a few times, does that count?
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I am setting up a dyno lighting system on my hunqapillar and bought a Busch
& Müller Secula Plus Tail Light which needs to be crimped to attach it to
the included spade connector and heat shrink.
It looks like I need a special crimper for something this small according
to Peter White's
page?
agreed with drew and kurt. I got a hunq as my first 'mountain bike', it's
still my favorite bike by far as outfitted with rat trap pass tires it
functions great as an all purpose road and trail bike, but for technical
and dedicated mountain bike riding (ie, drive my bike out to a singletrack
tr
nice! love the black and white pictures of the bridge as well. itching to
go out now that it's open, never been to treasure island. Is it true that
you need to take a shuttle where the bridge meets yerba buena island? that
you can't cycle from the bridge to treasure island?
On Sunday, October 2
what the hell is going on with that bike in the background with all the
gears? are those welded onto the frame? looks like someone's art project or
discarded prop from mad max.
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I agree with Reed on this, can't say I wouldn't own a Hunq if it was called
a Jim Clement, but I wouldn't feel so badass saying I own a Jim Clement as
I would a Hunqapillar (which maybe others can't stand that name either?).
The name shouldn't matter by any means, but it does for a lot of people
Man that silver on the Roadeo is great. Does it have a green tint to it
(I'm sorta color blind)?
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Nice, I wish it wasn't in my size because its tempting but I'm overloaded
on bikes at the moment, hope it goes quick!
On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 3:38:34 PM UTC-8, Abcyclehank wrote:
>
> That is the deal of the season. Win/Win situation.
> Sorry you are parting with it, but happy for whomeve
Clayton SF was looking for one a few weeks ago, might want to find that
post.
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 1:27:36 PM UTC-8, Mark Benedetto wrote:
>
> Bumping this
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 10:06:30 AM UTC-7, Mark Benedetto
> wrote:
>>
>> This bike is still available.
>>
>> F
I run Rat Trap Pass tires on my 26" hunq, alternating between that and some
2.1" smart sams. Mostly it's pavement this day with some trails mixed in.
Albastache bars (which I've tried to replace with no less than 3 other bars
and always go back to albastache - including dirt drops, jones, and ma
I went in yesterday and rode the Rosco Road, it's pretty awesome.
Lightweight and sporty feeling. I've never ridden the Roadeo or any of its
predecessors but I thought this was a pretty nice riding road bike and felt
sportier than other road-ish bikes I've ridden (though not a scientific
analys
I have a 54 silver quickbeam that I haven't ridden it in months which makes
me think it should go to a better home. I acquired this off a fellow list
member 2 years ago (local in Bay Area) and have primarily used this as an
all rounder with a yepp mini up front for toting around my 2 year old wh
forgot to mention: Flip flop hub with a 22 tooth fixed gear on the other
side.
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The dirt roads definitely look like a fun addition! I keep eyeing the
Grizzly Peak Century but never seem to have the time and with an expected
newborn I'll probably not make it this year either. Hopefully its
successful and expands next year.
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Haha, I was really hoping from the title that this was going to some sort
of existential crisis. What is my Rivendell really? Is it 'just' a bike?
What is a bike? Who are we? What am I? Why do we exist? Why purpose does a
bike serve, really, what are we riding from?
I was only slightly dissapoi
These are fantastic! Someone buy that 53cm roadeo and then sell it to me in
a few years.
Has anyone seen a 52cm AHH demo? I've never seen a 52 or 54cm at HQ, but
haven't been to BHH for a long time and not sure if they ever had one. That
would be the golden ticket for me.
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Where are these trails? Walnut Creek?
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Congrats! Once you get over the initial 'what the hell did am I doing
phase' (lasts 1-2 months) you'll want to negotiate with your spouse on
weekend time to get some bike riding in, at least till they turn 4 or 5 and
they start filling your calendar with activities, b-day parties, etc.
My wife
No comment on the stem but I did pick up a jumbo grabsack a few weeks ago
and love it. There is a sewn in sleeve on the inside which holds my 13" mac
but does not fit my wife's 14" lenovo (which is pretty thick). That being
said, there is ample room outside of the sewn in sleeve where the 14"
l
What was the notice that was removed? I missed it.
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I live in Oakland and haven't cycled out that direction but my vote would
be to be to go that northern route through the delta area that goes through
walnut grove and isleton. Though that area might feel a lot more like
chesapeake bay than california (in fact most of the ride no matter what
dir
There's another 51cm QB that has been on sale in Sacramento for several
months now. I bought a 54cm in SF off this list a little over a year ago as
I thought those sizes (54cm and under) were pretty rare, so surprised to to
see this and the sacramento ones still there too! I actually offered to
mounted some p65 fenders on my hunqapillar with rat trap pass tires. these
don't come with mudflaps though, anyone use these and find one that works
with these wide fenders? Just looking for one for the front.
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Question for the Seattleites on here. I know the riding is great in and
around Seattle. Well I don't 'know know', but I imagine it is, lots of
various terrain and an endless supply of nature and picturesque landscapes.
But how is the weather for year round riding? Contemplating a move in a
year
2 months of no
riding in December-February, worried it'd be like that but much, much
longer.
On Sunday, March 6, 2016 at 6:38:28 PM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>
> Question for the Seattleites on here. I know the riding is great in and
> around Seattle. Well I don't 'know know&#x
Saw this in my facebook feed today:
http://techiefans.com/how-to-track-your-bike-in-case-of-theft-using-your-smartphone/
I like that it is small and can keep a charge for a year, but on the
downside looks like its real easy to spot and remove. Waiting for the day
where we can stick a gps tracke
I second the Gunnar Sport if no lugs are ok. I have one as my go fast drop
bar bike, setup with a shimano 105 groupset. I had gunnar add some mid fork
brazeons for a front rack where I keep a small trunksack. Best bang for
your buck, I keep trying to replace it but always end up keeping it ;)
I
I have an 80 PBH and comfortably fit a 51cm SH and 48 or 51 Hunq (went 48
for more standover clearance for trail riding). I briefly had a 55cm
Cheviot but sold it. One primary reason being that I missed the top tube
since I was constantly lugging it up and down stairs. But also because it
felt
I am actually interested in this as well. I'm curious to hear how any choco
owners in general like their bars, and more specifically do you find
yourself using the flats (with that nice little curve) or is that too
narrow or uncomfortable and you find yourself using the grip area more.
--
You
Had one for a while on a Cheviot, once I was on the bike it was fine but I
couldn't step through the frame to get on like I hoped I would be able to
as there wasn't enough room so I had to swing my leg over the rear and
mount that way. Once I was riding it was fine. I now use the Yepp mini on a
Long shot, but does anyone have an unused pair of the tan cork handlebar
tape they're willing to part with? Not on the site at the moment (just
black, white, and cork look a like). Called and they said it'll be a while,
tried Soma but they're out, don't like any other options out there in that
Nice! I rode all around Nashville on a single speed over the holidays
visiting (used to live there), it was a blast, now that I'm in california
where there are long hour + climbs, I'm more convinced a single speed in
nashville is totally fine. Maybe a little hillier outside of town closer to
th
iamkeith - I think its just the price and 'lock in' that are the big
drawbacks. Same reason a lot of people here choose friction bar end
shifters rather than a brifter set up. For simplicity sake its nice to be
able to build a bike out of a parts bin or swap out different components
without hav
- Shimano PD-MX80 Saint Pedals - $45 shipped (only used for a month or so,
went back to clipless)
- Five Ten Men's Freerider Sneakers, size 10 - $65 shipped (only ridden for
2 or 3 rides, like new, great shoes but decided to go back to clipless, I
cut the strings and used some adjustable clips
Nice! I'm about to do the same with my Hunqapillar (take off the fenders
and racks, maybe replace the triple up front with a 1 x drivetrain, or sell
it which is what I should do - but you're convincing me a demotion might be
ok after all).
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I addition to bicyclebolts.com (and pitlocks), check out this
kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hexlox/hexlox-anti-theft-for-saddles-wheels-and-more-made
There's always risks with kickstarter, but a $26 pledge isn't much for a
basic set of saddle locks that work with your existi
Just PM'd you, I'll take them if they're still available.
On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:56:35 PM UTC-7, Zac Stanley wrote:
>
> Pacenti SL 23//Shimano 105, 32 Hole, 3x w/ Sapim Laser spokes (2.0/1.8/2.0)
>
> Handbuilt by me, a certifified DT swiss wheelbuilder.
>
> Less than 500 miles.
>
> Also in
If what I'm hearing from Mark is correct then I wholeheartedly agree: buy
more bikes and lock them all together to make it hard to remove the bike! I
think that is the n+5 rule.
Congrats on the homeownership! I hope to be there too one day, my bike
storage solution now is creative, to say the
This is the stock 650b Velocity wheelset from Rivendell with Atlas rims and
135mm Velocity Sport
hub: http://www.rivbike.com/650B-Wheels-and-Rims-s/121.htm
36h. Less than 250 miles. Col De La Vie 38c tires included.
$300 plus shipping. Local pickup in Oakland preferred.
PM if interested. Will
Correction, one of these is an Atlas rim, the other Aeroheat, from
rivendell: "If Velocity runs out of ATLAS rims, we may sub its
AEROHEAT/DYAD model. That is a good one, too."
Just got a Velocity box from Rivendell today, can ship to the lower 48 for
$300 out the door , usps ground. $30 more f
wheelset sold!
On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:43:26 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> Correction, one of these is an Atlas rim, the other Aeroheat, from
> rivendell: "If Velocity runs out of ATLAS rims, we may sub its
> AEROHEAT/DYAD model. That is a good one, too."
>
>
Nice! I got a Jones recently as well with a 2x9 setup which I'm happy with
(trigger shifters) and have had no issues with, but am thinking of a 1x9 or
1x10 on my hunqapillar (or just sell the hunqapillar). What is the crank
you're using? Are you using indexed or friction on the shifters?
On Sat
There's also something at West Point Inn (cyclotourist - check for a
previous thread on this) and Sibley (me - but I think I'll change this to a
date in May or July if anyone is interested, as either the West Point Inn
or Juniper sounds awesome).
But Swift campout is awesome, I joined a group
Whatever, just smile and nod and keep on pedaling. Hopefully by 'rode away
from him' that means you sped off in front of him, if not it doesn't even
matter. I often get people commenting on my rivendell and similar bikes, i
generally think they're positive but there's this weird west coast passi
Yes! I'm about to do the same thing with a sunrace 11-42 cassette, same
derailleur, and white industries eno crank.
On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 4:46:18 PM UTC-7, Keith Muller wrote:
>
> So in my boredom at the bike shop I decided to put an XTR one-by setup on
> my Hunqapillar. I also shed t
Spring cleaning. Enough parts to build a bike, almost. All prices without
shipping. Will charge for actual shipping to lower 48. Shipping may take me
a few weeks, let me know if urgent. Local pickup in Oakland and takes
priority. PM me if interested.
Photos: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbu
Here's whats left:
- Map / Ahearne handlebars, silver 615mm - $30
- Nitto Tallux stem, 9 or 10cm (I swear it measures 10 and I remember
getting a 10, but my order history says I have only ordered 9cm), 225mm
height, 25.4 - $45
- Shimano PD-M324 Pedals SDP Dual Platform Pedal (Si
from rid, same 1000 estimated miles) - $20
On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> Here's whats left:
>
>
>- Map / Ahearne handlebars, silver 615mm - $30
>- Nitto Tallux stem, 9 or 10cm (I swear it measures 10 and I remember
>getti
+1 on the ESI grips. I had bullmoose bars and liked those the best (tried
some ergon grips and bar tape). Great cushion and grip.
On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 12:14:53 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I use Ergon small grips on a couple bikes with riser bars..the shape is
> similar to the WTBs
I switched from CX70 to motolites 1. out of curiosity and 2. i wanted
something that was easier to release for wheel removal (The cx70's were
tight and hard to release i found).
I like them mostly, though I can't comment on loaded steep descents too
much.
However - I do have a question on leve
I'm actually curious to how many audiophiles are on here. I feel like high
end steel bikes and fancy (usually non-mass produced) audio gear have a lot
in common. With the big difference that I can hide my bike in the garage
when i'm not using and it gets me outside ;). With records you get to
i
Depends on the riding but for me 3 is the perfect number: one go fast road
bike, one single speed/around town bike, and one mountain bike (with one or
more of those capable of carrying a load for S240's). That being said I
have 5 and very creative storage solutions to say the least (no garage, n
Nice build! Welcome to the club. There's only 11 of us bronze rosco bubbe
folks, or will be once they all sell. I love mine, it's been my go to bike
since I got it.
On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 8:02:13 AM UTC-7, EasyRider wrote:
>
> I bought one of the bronze Rosco Bubbe frames, and built it up o
Sold!
On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 5:28:24 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> Bought this last May for my hunqapilar and loved it but going with another
> brooks I have and selling this. I'd say barely if even broken in, maybe 300
> miles. A little wear and tear on the rear thoug
I've had the zeitgeist and saddlesack. It really depends on what you're
going to be using them for. The medium saddlesack is definitely larger
(18-23L) than the zetigeist (11L).
I've mostly relied on the medium (and large) saddlesack for camping and
errand running along with a shopsack up front
I've had them both. The medium fits a ton and I prefer that for everyday
use (commuting and bike camping (but I don't do a lot of heavy duty grocery
getting or any errands like that). Nice thing is that even for an S240 you
can get a lot in there and bulge it out for some extra room. All depends
I say try it out. I have a 1x10 on my hunqapillar which is mostly seeing
road use these days. 42 White Industries ENO with a11-42 Sunrace cassette,
though I rarely use the 42t on the rear cassette (mostly because i keep
having trouble getting it to stay in that gear when climbing a hill), and I
I have a 48cm hunq and a 24" jones plus. The hunq was my 'original' mtn
bike, now the jones isfits fine. it's so well designed that it doesn't
feel that big when you're in it at all, but if you look at it it is huge,
especially compared to my small hunq with 26" wheels. the only times it
fe
What do you folks use for backpacking in warm weather (low's lower 60's,
high's mid to upper 80's)? I have two rain jackets: both are sauna's when
it's warm out. Is a disposable poncho the best bet? I see some poncho's on
REI, are they less sauna like then the rain jackets?
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I should clarify, it's just for the possibility of scattered showers over a
3 day trip. Nothing crazy. Going east for the memorial day weekend in VA.
Normally in CA I can assume it will not rain for the next several months.
On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 1:30:54 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
&
Great story! I have a version of killer hill that starts close to my house
and climbs for 4.5 miles. Used to take me 40 minutes. I'd get passed by the
lycra crabon crowd all the time. So i kept pushing and got my ass in shape.
I can now get up the hill in about 32 minutes, on par or better than
Weird, I just talked to him like a month or two ago when visiting and
sometimes run into him riding around town in Oakland. He helped me with a
few builds and was always super helpful. He must be gone since he's no
longer on the site, though usually I feel like they announce people coming
and g
Bill - how many rivendell's do you own now?!?! Can I have a couple ;)
I don't get the appeal of the upright mountain mixte. I guess it doesn't
have to be upright, but they usually seem to be setup w/ albatross bars. To
be honest though, I don't see the appeal of upright bars for anything other
76.5-83cm PBH (Saddle height 66-72cm, standover on biggest tire is 77.5cm)
I hate to let this one go, but I have too much overlap and not enough
storage. Several small, light nicks on the frame and fork (less than 1-2cm,
surface scratches only, no dents, most are painted over with matching t
Pictures:
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0o52plgjcWPDM
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They're also supposed to be more like the QB/SO where you can fit a double
speed crank and a white industries dos and have enough room in the
horizontal dropouts to adjust the chain b/w the different configs
(something I asked about when getting my rosco bubbe which also had
horizontal dropouts
Inspired by Bill's post I bought a Spur bell on a whim at a bike shop the
other day in the Mission (SF). It's super expensive, but a damn good bell
and I like that it's smaller. It does has a super nice ring to it. The
attachment is kind of weird, it comes with two different flimsy aluminum
pie
90 was always my cutoff point when I lived in Nashville. Especially since
it was so humid it always felt like 100 or more. It's hard to find time to
even ride in the AM a lot of times in that kind of sweltering, hot, humid
southern weather as it barely seems to drop below 80 at night and picks
I second this. A single speed and a geared all rounder sound good to me. 2
x N+1.
On Saturday, July 22, 2017 at 10:00:53 AM UTC-7, WETH wrote:
>
> You'll probably need to buy more than one bike for the island, so you can
> tour guests around! 2 x N+1
> I share your interest in what Riv is plann
Bike is sold! Dyno wheelset, light, saddle, and rear rack stillf or sale
(will post separately as well).
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Saw this today and curious of the group's thoughts on
this: http://www.sustainabletrailscoalition.org/
On the one hand, all they are aiming to do is lift a blanket ban on bikes
in federal wilderness areas and trails so that land manager can make a
decision on whether bikes would be allowed on a
Nice setup and write up, thanks for sharing. Those dirt drops look fun! And
at least you didn't crash into a patch of poison oak like I did on my
hunqapillar recently while trying to get back on the bike from an almost
crash a second before!
On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 8:14:04 PM UTC-7, To
I really like this bike and I hate to sell it, but I need to thin the
heard and it is the most superfluous bike I have. These are also out of
stock until May and there seems to be a few people who were interested in
picking one up but missed the chance. This is relatively new and scratch
free.
Pictures here: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0859UlCqlD9Li
Saddle and pedals not included.
On Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 4:48:40 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> I really like this bike and I hate to sell it, but I need to thin the
> heard and it is the most superfluous bike I ha
I've had some interest in the rack and wanted to clarify that I'm hoping to
sell the bike first (or with). As long as the bike is in my stable I'd like
to keep the rack on there (and fenders around) if I'm going to use it. Will
update the thread accordingly if the bike sells and the rack and fen
Great review! And having ridden with you on that bike while you on some of
the back side trails in china camp and marin headlands, you absolutely
shredded it while I lagged a long ass ways behind you on my hunqapillar.
To counterpoint though, I never felt any of that on my cheviot the brief
t
I bought these July, mounted them for 2 overnighters, and took them off.
They have a few scratches from me trying to mount them. But otherwise are
structurally sound and very new. I have the hook attachment for the bottom,
as well as the mid-fork eyelets mount (that is still in the package).
I
?
On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 9:30:46 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> I've had some interest in the rack and wanted to clarify that I'm hoping
> to sell the bike first (or with). As long as the bike is in my stable I'd
> like to keep the rack on there (and fenders around)
Yes, if you use the right combination of bees wax, pine tar soap, and irish
straps you can build your very own flux capacitor :)
2015 is what I meant.
Bike is sold.
On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 6:17:38 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> You stated "Purchased February 2016. 400 miles of mi
I have a 48cm hunq that normally runs 26 x 2.1 smart sams. Had a 650b
wheelset around with babyshoe pass 650b x 42. Threw them on, adjusted the
cantilever breaks. Everything seems to fit. Bike rides fine (a little
squirrely, maybe it has something to do with tire pressure though? bar
height?).
Just went on a 12 mile ride. Went fine. I"m alive ;). I liked the ride a
lot actually. Definitely felt a *little* taller. Handling was fine. A tad
squirrerly. Kind of reminded me of my issue with the Big Bens on my 26"
rims earlier this year that I posted about. I'll give it a few weeks, but
if
Awesome right up and thanks for sharing.
Aren't the Thunder Burts also racing tires meant for short term use like
the furious freds? Are are those in fact more duarable?
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I'd be really interested in this ride next year as well, I never see them
until its too late. I've ridden all of this ride at some point or another
on smaller rides. Would be really cool to do the whole route.
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Agreed on all the above. The quickbeam is the one bike I'd have a hard time
parting with and I imagine will be in the stable for a long time. I had it
setup as a road bike for a short bit, but now is handling commuting and kid
carrying duties (with a yepp mini).
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Quick heads up to anyone who is not watching the Bay Area Rivendell Riders
Group, there is a 9/20 Marin headlands ride starting at 9:30 from the ferry
building (in front of Gott's) and ending around 1-ish at Crissy Field for
the Rivendell Bicycle Picnic from 1-4 featured on the Blug. First versi
Hey Matt - The marin headlands ride I'm leading leaves from near the Ferry
Building by the Embarcadero BART which you'll need to pass at some point,
so if you're interested in parking in Walnut Creek (or Oakland even,
Rockridge BART is a decent place to park and only a few blocks from my
house)
nuel Acosta wrote:
>
> If the wifey isnt doing better i might join solo. I have a route in mind
> that is fairly short and fun.
>
> Otherwise We'll see you at the picnic
>
> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 7:58:50 AM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely. Al
I also can sub in some On-One Gary bars or some Nitto RM-013 if someone
would rather have drops or dirt drops over the upright albatross-ish bars
(would need some new brake levers).
I can do a frame, fork, bottom bracket, headset,wheelset, tires for $700.
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Nice post and great pictures. I've had my hunqapillar for 2 and a half
years and almost sold it one point, so glad I didn't. Wish I got as much
mileage as you on that thing though! I agree with all of this. My
hunqapillar is noticeably not as fast as my go fast road bike, but it is
just as fast
I applaud your itch to build up a bike around a handlebar, i feel each bike
should have a decidedly different cockpit. I have an albastached on my
hunqapillar and as a serial cockpit swapper i've tried jones, map, dirt
drops, and something else I can't remember but always go back to
albastache.
650b tires seemed to gain in popularity because you could fit wider tires
than 700c (with 700c being traditionally narrow in size both in the tire
clearance of frames made and the tires availabile), but now that wider
tires have gained in popularity in all sizes, including 700c, what are the
dr
That's great and all said and done unless you're like me and you
essentially just raised the bar on what a bike costs, and then 2 or 3 more
of those later
Thankfully rivendell's hold a lot of their value and a few mistakes (bikes
I didn't like as much as I thought) didn't cost my too much i
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